Kansas next state to ban game cameras on Public Land

[Overdrive]

But if a law goes against my moral compass, I should advocate for a change of that law. Especially when that law is related to a public resource.

I never said a word about baiting. I am talking trail cameras.

That's because you edited your post, your story of chasing a buck for 2 years and some kid killed it sitting a tree stand over bait so now your advocating to removing baiting from Utah, but nice try with the edit.

Like I said others rights don't end where your moral compass begins.

 

[CorbLand]

That's because you edited your post, your story of chasing a buck for 2 years and some kid killed it sitting a tree stand over bait so now your advocating to removing baiting from Utah, but nice try with the edit.

Like I said others rights don't end where your moral compass begins.

I did edit that post because this thread is not about baiting and I was only helping push it further from the original topic. There was no “nice try” with that edit. I edited well before you responded.

Your summary of that post also takes it out of context and leaves out the reason that I originally included it.

So, for clarity, I said that I chased a monster buck for two years in Utah. The kid that killed it sat in a tree stand over bait. He acted with in the law at that time and I am happy for him but I continued to advocate for banning baiting. I had been doing so for years before.

I am not advocating for the banning of baiting in Utah. I advocated for it, along with many others and got it banned.

To not take an objective look at things and advocate for or against is a bad idea. To simply say “well it’s legal” is passing the buck to those that make laws and saying “tell me what it is right and wrong.” I don’t want to devolve this thread away from what it is but there are a lot moral things that are illegal and immoral things that are legal.

In this instance where the morality is more based on fair chase and not fair chase and in regards to hunting. There use to be no seasons, legal hunting times, punt guns use to be legal, etc. All of those things use to be legal and are now not because people stood up.

You don’t have a right to use trail cameras…at least I am not aware of a state that has that as a right.

 

[Elkangle]

It's always unfair when others have more success...you guys can start banning tools one at a time until there won't be anything left

What's next on your ban list?

Stop crying and hunt harder

 

[CorbLand]

It's always unfair when others have more success...you guys can start banning tools one at a time until there won't be anything left

What's next on your ban list?

Stop crying and hunt harder

I would like to see Utah take scopes off muzzleloaders and work to push them back to more primitive weapons to justify their own season.

Ironically, the reason I like to see cameras regulated is to make people have hunt harder to see consistent success….

 

[Elkangle]

I would like to see Utah take scopes off muzzleloaders and work to push them back to more primitive weapons to justify their own season.

Ironically, the reason I like to see cameras regulated is to make people have hunt harder to see consistent success….

I don't think changing these rules will affect you in any way...you will still see others be successful and you will still think in the back of your head that "they don't deserve it" and "this" is why it's unfair..."they didn't work as hard as me!!"

 

[CorbLand]

I don't think changing these rules will affect you in any way...you will still see others be successful and you will still think in the back of your head that "they don't deserve it" and "this" is why it's unfair..."they didn't work as hard as me!!"

Nope. I don’t get into the who deserves what way of thinking. Success has little to do with my stance on these changes.

What I want is for it to become harder, so success rates drop and opportunities increase.

 

[Overdrive]

I did edit that post because this thread is not about baiting and I was only helping push it further from the original topic. There was no “nice try” with that edit. I edited well before you responded.

Your summary of that post also takes it out of context and leaves out the reason that I originally included it.

So, for clarity, I said that I chased a monster buck for two years in Utah. The kid that killed it sat in a tree stand over bait. He acted with in the law at that time and I am happy for him but I continued to advocate for banning baiting. I had been doing so for years before.

I am not advocating for the banning of baiting in Utah. I advocated for it, along with many others and got it banned.

To not take an objective look at things and advocate for or against is a bad idea. To simply say “well it’s legal” is passing the buck to those that make laws and saying “tell me what it is right and wrong.” I don’t want to devolve this thread away from what it is but there are a lot moral things that are illegal and immoral things that are legal.

In this instance where the morality is more based on fair chase and not fair chase and in regards to hunting. There use to be no seasons, legal hunting times, punt guns use to be legal, etc. All of those things use to be legal and are now not because people stood up.

You don’t have a right to use trail cameras…at least I am not aware of a state that has that as a right.

Laws dictate your rights, if a written law says you can't do something then you have no right to do that action. If a written law says you can do something within that law legally you have Rights!

Just like Colorado law on Game Cameras which I know a lot of people don't follow or probably don't know about.

Against the Law to use live-action game cameras to locate, surveil, or aid/assist in locating/surveiling game wildlife in order to take/try to take wildlife during the same or following day. "live action game camera" is any device capable of recording and transmitting photo/video date wirelessly to a remote device(such as a computer or smart phone) This does not include game cameras that record photo/video data and store such data for later use, as long at the device cannot transmit data wirelessly. (Page 15 of Big Game Hunting regulations)

So by the way I interpret this law and how it is written I have the Right to legally put out common game cameras because they are within the allowed confines of the written law. I don't have the Right to legally put out Live-action game cameras.

 

[Elkangle]

Nope. I don’t get into the who deserves what way of thinking. Success has little to do with my stance on these changes.

What I want is for it to become harder, so success rates drop and opportunities increase.

Changing these tactics will have very little affect on "success"... you can have a guy kill a deer with a scoped muzzy at 200 yards and take it home or you can have a guy hit the deer in the guts with an open sight muzzy and then lose it...bios still consider both when setting objectives

Running cameras allows people to be more selective and let younger animals walk...you take that away and those younger animals are gona get wacked

cameras and scopes arnt the solution to your loss of opportunities

 

[CorbLand]

Laws dictate your rights, if a written law says you can't do something then you have no right to do that action. If a written law says you can do something within that law legally you have Rights!

Just like Colorado law on Game Cameras which I know a lot of people don't follow or probably don't know about.

Against the Law to use live-action game cameras to locate, surveil, or aid/assist in locating/surveiling game wildlife in order to take/try to take wildlife during the same or following day. "live action game camera" is any device capable of recording and transmitting photo/video date wirelessly to a remote device(such as a computer or smart phone) This does not include game cameras that record photo/video data and store such data for later use, as long at the device cannot transmit data wirelessly. (Page 15 of Big Game Hunting regulations)

So by the way I interpret this law and how it is written I have the Right to legally put out common game cameras because they are within the allowed confines of the written law. I don't have the Right to legally put out Live-action game cameras.

I don’t want to devolve this thread but laws tell us what we can’t do, not what we can. That is a far bigger discussion than this and is not what this thread about.

The Colorado law is saying you can’t use transmitting trail cameras, then defines what a nontransmitting trail camera is.

 

[RyanT26]

Running cameras allows people to be more selective and let younger animals walk...you take that away and those younger animals are gona get wacked

I don’t know where you’re hunting buddy but I can tell you this nobody’s passing on young deer on public land in Kansas.

On private land yes that happens.

 

[CorbLand]

Changing these tactics will have very little affect on "success"... you can have a guy kill a deer with a scoped muzzy at 200 yards and take it home or you can have a guy hit the deer in the guts with an open sight muzzy and then lose it...bios still consider both when setting objectives

Running cameras allows people to be more selective and let younger animals walk...you take that away and those younger animals are gona get wacked

cameras and scopes arnt the solution to your loss of opportunities

Scopes on muzzleloaders has more to do with what they are now capable of and them having their own season.

I don’t care if younger animals get whacked. I have said zero about it being anything about the size and/or age of animals.

I don’t buy the “it allows me to be selective argument.” Your either going to kill a young animal or your not. I don’t know a single person that has legitimately passed an animal because they have another one on camera.

Scopes and cameras are not the only contributing factor to loss of opportunity but it is a portion.

 

[Elkangle]

Scopes on muzzleloaders has more to do with what they are now capable of and them having their own season.

I don’t care if younger animals get whacked. I have said zero about it being anything about the size of animals.

I don’t buy the “it allows me to be selective argument.” Your either going to kill a young animal or your not. I don’t know a single person that has legitimately passed an animal because they have another one on camera.

Lol then obviously you haven't used cameras much...its the main way to get guys to hold out

You should care if younger animals get wacked if you want more tags and opportunities

 

[Elkangle]

I don’t know where you’re hunting buddy but I can tell you this nobody’s passing on young deer on public land in Kansas.

On private land yes that happens.

Plenty of young deer get passed on public in Kansas

 

[CorbLand]

Lol then obviously you haven't used cameras much...its the main way to get guys to hold out

You should care if younger animals get wacked if you want more tags and opportunities

I have used cameras a lot and know many people that use a lot more than I do. Not a single one doesn’t shoot animals because they have something bigger on camera. They are either going to hold out because they want to or they won’t.

It may shift when they shoot something. IE, they may pass an animal on day one of the hunt to try for something on camera but if they were willing to shoot it on day one, they will shoot it on the last day.

 

[Elkangle]

I have used cameras a lot and know many people that use a lot more than I do. Not a single one doesn’t shoot animals because they have something bigger on camera. They are either going to hold out because they want to or they won’t.

It may shift when they shoot something. IE, they may pass an animal on day one of the hunt to try for something on camera but if they were willing to shoot it on day one, they will shoot it on the last day.

Well I know lots of guys to pass up bucks strictly due to cameras, including myself...

And its exactly the same as if I'm using long distance glassing...once I know a certain class exists then it makes being selective substantially easier.. irregardless of the tool I use to find that animal

 

[HuntHarder]

I have used cameras a lot and know many people that use a lot more than I do. Not a single one doesn’t shoot animals because they have something bigger on camera. They are either going to hold out because they want to or they won’t.

It may shift when they shoot something. IE, they may pass an animal on day one of the hunt to try for something on camera but if they were willing to shoot it on day one, they will shoot it on the last day.

Lots of whitetail hunters use cameras to pass on animals. It is not as common in the west, but midwest and east it is a normal practice. I hunt every year in North Dakota and pass on smaller bucks knowing which "target" animal I am after. P.S. I am all for bans on public land.

 

[CorbLand]

Well I know lots of guys to pass up bucks strictly due to cameras, including myself...

And its exactly the same as if I'm using long distance glassing...once I know a certain class exists then it makes being selective substantially easier.. irregardless of the tool I use to find that animal

That’s because you have that in you. Same as me. I could be done deer hunting 20 minutes into season every year if I wanted to be but I have no desire to shoot younger deer. Others do though.

I said it earlier in this thread. There is nothing humans do that doesn’t provide an advantage over the animals we hunt. This is what we have to look at the level of advantage tools provide and ask if we are ok with that.

Glassing and cameras provide the same information but cameras have a major advantage over glassing. Both provide an advantage but one provides it in a substantially different way.

 

[Erict]

They'd never do this in NY - they would figure out how to tax us or charge for permits first.

 

[svivian]

But if a law goes against my moral compass, I should advocate for a change of that law. Especially when that law is related to a public resource.

This sums up politics and all the things that are going on in the world.

 

[Elkangle]

That’s because you have that in you. Same as me. I could be done deer hunting 20 minutes into season every year if I wanted to be but I have no desire to shoot younger deer. Others do though.

Sounds like there is plenty of opportunity then even with those nasty trail cameras on the landscape

I think its great if guys prefer to shoot the 1st animal but just understand they can do that because another group of guys prefer to pass and in my opinion it's easier to pass when cameras are used

Guys who run a handful of cameras generally arnt super committed to being very selective, which is great, but i really don't think people care about that particular group...I believe the distaste is towards the guys running 50 pluss cameras and those guys typically are being very selective. Running that many cameras is a ton of work and if you haven't done it I guess it would be easy to cast stones

I get tired of the constant finger pointing that some how the hunting community has adopted, we will shoot ourselves in the foot over the misguided thought of making things .0001% better meanwhile other groups are tossing wolves around like candy and in states along the weat coast are losing hunting all together via hidden bills...dont even get me started on the nonresident restrictions poping up like weeds in nearly every state... there is much larger fish to fry regarding opportunity loss