JRE w/ Cam and Steve

[doc holiday13]

Blowing up wildboars, spearing bears, spearing goats out of stock tanks, etc, and filming it is making us all look bad. Case and point, Josh Bowmar single handedly closed spear hunting in Alberta after posting ONE video of him hunting with legal means at the time.

This is actually the attitude that is causing the outdoorsman to loose the fight. You might think its dumb but its in your best interest to defend those tactics. Blowing up animals would be on the side of poor behavior because it turns into a useless killing that leads to an un-useable carcass. But my point stands in that legal and fringe hunting tactics are easy pickings to get banned, but that just gets the anti's one step closer to eliminating other forms of hunting.

First you get rid of spears, then bows, then rifles... Its a natural progression. Killing animals from ambush position with a spear is what cavemen did.

I've had hunters bitch at me for using a dog for hunting squirrel because "you don't need a dog to hunt squirrel" . Which I flipped back on them "you don't need a dog to hunt chukkar or pheasant" .. Does that mean I'm going to persue banning the hunting of birds with a dog?

You don't have to like it, but if the method doesn't constitute as useless/wanton killing , its in your best interest to defend it. If you don't like a media hunters behavior then vote with your dollars. But just like any regulation/law on firearms is an infringement on the 2A; any law banning a hunting practice is another step to loose hunting.

 

[ladogg411]

...

Another example is hunting bears with dogs or bait. Once they ban that they'll move into banning hunting deer with dogs, then they'll move into banning hunting with dogs for everything. ...

I support banning hound hunting of bears & mountain lion. The only reason all mountain lion hunting might go down with the hound hunters of CRWM is if Coloradans let it happen. They seem to want to fight Prop 91/101 outright, instead of fronting a competing prop that would only ban hound hunting of cats.

The law successfully draws lines on slippery slopes all the time.
a. Most states haven banned hunting deer with dogs for decades. That hasn't led to losing bird hunting with dogs.
b. The NFA was signed in 1934 - ninety years ago. And I still have all the firearms I need.

 

[saskhunter]

This is actually the attitude that is causing the outdoorsman to loose the fight. You might think its dumb but its in your best interest to defend those tactics. Blowing up animals would be on the side of poor behavior because it turns into a useless killing that leads to an un-useable carcass. But my point stands in that legal and fringe hunting tactics are easy pickings to get banned, but that just gets the anti's one step closer to eliminating other forms of hunting.

First you get rid of spears, then bows, then rifles... Its a natural progression. Killing animals from ambush position with a spear is what cavemen did.

I've had hunters bitch at me for using a dog for hunting squirrel because "you don't need a dog to hunt squirrel" . Which I flipped back on them "you don't need a dog to hunt chukkar or pheasant" .. Does that mean I'm going to persue banning the hunting of birds with a dog?

You don't have to like it, but if the method doesn't constitute as useless/wanton killing , its in your best interest to defend it. If you don't like a media hunters behavior then vote with your dollars. But just like any regulation/law on firearms is an infringement on the 2A; any law banning a hunting practice is another step to loose hunting.

Buddy, well call a spade a spade, "hunting" by blowing up animals, is plain f'n wrong.

I think you missed the part where I mentioned that FILMING IT and posting it online is what is making it us look bad. No one cared about spear bear hunting until Josh Bowmar filmed his hunt and aired/posted it.

I'm just a commie Canadian but the obsession with not "infringing on rights" in the US is getting a little out of whack at times... The fastest way to lose hunting is to keep posting dumb hunting content. The more we post dead animals and videos of guys gunning down boars with .50 cals and miniguns, the more hate we are going to get and if we let that happen, we deserve what we're going to get.

It's easier to convince people that hunting is right when there isn't a slough of tasteless hunting media out there, legal or not. The argument that spear hunting was legal in Alberta and the rallying of hunters afterwards DID NOT save spear hunting one bit. Hindsight is 20/20, I stopped buying Under Armour after they ditched Josh Bowmar for spearing that bear and I was 100% part of the "support this fellow hunter at all cost" crew... Turns out Josh Bowmar is a turd who's racked up a list of poaching convictions, like too many influencers, who will do ANYTHING to push content and who are fully commercializing wildlife.

Social Media is a f'n cancer.

 

[doc holiday13]

I support banning hound hunting of bears & mountain lion. The only reason all mountain lion hunting might go down with the hound hunters of CRWM is if Coloradans let it happen. They seem to want to fight Prop 91/101 outright, instead of fronting a competing prop that would only ban hound hunting of cats.

The law successfully draws lines on slippery slopes all the time.
a. Most states haven banned hunting deer with dogs for decades. That hasn't led to losing bird hunting with dogs.
b. The NFA was signed in 1934 - ninety years ago. And I still have all the firearms I need.

you're why we lose ground

fact.. hunting bears and lions with dogs is effective and better for selectively taking mature animals that are best suited for removal.

 

[Braaap]

I support banning hound hunting of bears & mountain lion. The only reason all mountain lion hunting might go down with the hound hunters of CRWM is if Coloradans let it happen. They seem to want to fight Prop 91/101 outright, instead of fronting a competing prop that would only ban hound hunting of cats.

The law successfully draws lines on slippery slopes all the time.
a. Most states haven banned hunting deer with dogs for decades. That hasn't led to losing bird hunting with dogs.
b. The NFA was signed in 1934 - ninety years ago. And I still have all the firearms I need.

Care to elaborate why you support this? CA banned hunting bears with hounds several years ago. You would be crazy to think they won’t move to ban bear hunting completely before too long.

This is one of those issues where even if you don’t personally support hound hunting it would behoove you to support it if you like hunting at all imo.

 

[isItFallYet]

I'm just a commie Canadian but the obsession with not "infringing on rights" in the US is getting a little out of whack at times...

Not sure if I understand what you meant by that. In my opinion, everyone should be absolutely obsessed with the government taking rights away. That’s actually why we’re even having this discussion.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Valid point and one that I didn’t think about because besides listening to random podcasts, Rokslide is the closest thing to social media that I am a part of. I imagine there are others like me.

Same boat my only social media is hunting forums, mostly rokslide

 

[Hnthrdr]

I support banning hound hunting of bears & mountain lion. The only reason all mountain lion hunting might go down with the hound hunters of CRWM is if Coloradans let it happen. They seem to want to fight Prop 91/101 outright, instead of fronting a competing prop that would only ban hound hunting of cats.

The law successfully draws lines on slippery slopes all the time.
a. Most states haven banned hunting deer with dogs for decades. That hasn't led to losing bird hunting with dogs.
b. The NFA was signed in 1934 - ninety years ago. And I still have all the firearms I need.

This is an awful take. Lions are all but impossible to hunt without hounds. If you don’t believe me give it a shot, even with hounds it is far from a certainty. Oh by the way they want to outlaw e-calls as well for lions and bobcats and shorten the season to two weeks. How will that work out? Guess what it won’t. This is just a shadow ban on lions, why would you ever support that? It’s like saying they will make deer season 2 days in October and you have to use a slingshot. See they didn’t ban hunting what is the big deal?!

 

[ladogg411]

Care to elaborate why you support this? CA banned hunting bears with hounds several years ago. You would be crazy to think they won’t move to ban bear hunting completely before too long.
..

Because chasing bears/cats with hounds isn't fair chase IMO. And it is overwhelmingly opposed by the general public. Compromise. Their voice matters, why poke them on this issue. They will continue to win these ballot issues if Coloradans don't wake up and offer more reasonable ballot measures to compete.

This is one of those issues where even if you don’t personally support hound hunting it would behoove you to support it if you like hunting at all imo.

Respectfully disagree. We can have laws on slippery slopes.

CRWM takes a hard line stance because their leaders are hound outfitters and business owners reliant on hound use. They want to draw all hunters in to this mess to protect their income. A smart move.

 

[ladogg411]

This is an awful take. Lions are all but impossible to hunt without hounds. ...

Not true. I've seen spot & stalk lions killed... twice.

WA banned hound hunting of mountain lions. Then, responded by slashing Res/NR cat tag prices and extended the season. As a result, mountain lion harvest is UP after the hound ban. We can get the necessary harvest without hound chases that aggravate the voting public.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Not true. I've seen spot & stalk lions killed... twice.

WA banned hound hunting of mountain lions. Then, responded by slashing Res/NR cat tag prices and extended the season. As a result, mountain lion harvest is UP after the hound ban. We can get the necessary harvest without hound chases that aggravate the voting public.

You have seen it? In person or on the internet? Have you ever been around houndsmen? Or a lion hunt with hounds, have never hunted with hounds I have hunted with hand call and tracking… so far I’m about 0 and 250 on calling a cat in on a set. By your logic I guess it’s unfair to hunt pheasant, quail and chuckar with dogs then as well?

 

[diamond10x]

Because chasing bears/cats with hounds isn't fair chase IMO. And it is overwhelmingly opposed by the general public. Compromise. Their voice matters, why poke them on this issue. They will continue to win these ballot issues if Coloradans don't wake up and offer more reasonable ballot measures to compete.


Respectfully disagree. We can have laws on slippery slopes.

CRWM takes a hard line stance because their leaders are hound outfitters and business owners reliant on hound use. They want to draw all hunters in to this mess to protect their income. A smart move.

When have anti-hunters ever compromised on anything? When have they ever said "hunters voices matter, we should not poke them on trying to ban what they love to do"? Compromise, compromise, and compromise until one day you have nothing left.

Hunting with hounds for bears and cats in practice and theory is absolutely no different than bird hunting with dogs, they are one in the same. Only difference is one has been portrayed as being for the "gentlemen or noble" kind. Since in your mind, it's not fair chase, therefore saying and thinking it should be banned doesn't bother you because it doesn't affect you in any way. It's no different than being a firm believer in the first amendment, I don't have to like or agree with what you say, but I'd still stand for your right to be able to say and think whatever you want even if I believe it to be completely idiotic. I can promise you that whenever your preferred hunting ways come under attack, there won't be anybody there to stand with you because of the selfish mentality.

Whether you realize it or not, your mentality is exactly the reason for loss of opportunities when it comes to hunting and other things in life, not the few bozos that break the law or do obnoxious things.

Edit: I see that you don't like any type of cat hunting at all...

 

[1jeds]

I think hunting opportunities will only increase in coming years. Every generation goes outside less and likes to be uncomfortable less. Joe Rogan talking about how awesome it is, won't make that big of a dent in the millions of couch potatoes we have. Just wait until the stupid Apple goggles get really cheap. Nobody under 30 will leave their house anymore.

This is my view as well. The US is around 70% of people are overweight, with 40% of them obese. I'm not too concerned with increasing competition - plus I prefer to have a growth mindset instead of fixed. I think with continued conservation efforts we can all have opportunities. That doesn't mean standing around passively expecting things to remain the same, we have to make an active effort.

 

[Braaap]

Because chasing bears/cats with hounds isn't fair chase IMO. And it is overwhelmingly opposed by the general public. Compromise. Their voice matters, why poke them on this issue. They will continue to win these ballot issues if Coloradans don't wake up and offer more reasonable ballot measures to compete.


Respectfully disagree. We can have laws on slippery slopes.

CRWM takes a hard line stance because their leaders are hound outfitters and business owners reliant on hound use. They want to draw all hunters in to this mess to protect their income. A smart move.

How long have you been a hunter? I honestly don’t mean this in a condescending way, I’m just curious based on your position.

I hear you but I disagree with you about compromising. I do not think the animals rights or anti hound hunting crowd would do the same for us and therefore feel that we should fight to not lose an inch of what we have. I think most of them probably don’t want to see any hunting and this how they slowly take this away piece by piece. This has happened to groups of people throughout history.

The outfitters that use hounds surely have a financial stake in this but I believe it goes way beyond that and will affect all of us.

 

[KurtR]

Because chasing bears/cats with hounds isn't fair chase IMO. And it is overwhelmingly opposed by the general public. Compromise. Their voice matters, why poke them on this issue. They will continue to win these ballot issues if Coloradans don't wake up and offer more reasonable ballot measures to compete.


Respectfully disagree. We can have laws on slippery slopes.

CRWM takes a hard line stance because their leaders are hound outfitters and business owners reliant on hound use. They want to draw all hunters in to this mess to protect their income. A smart move.

One of the worst takes ever on rokslide. So you want to take others peoples rights away why when they come for something you like would they help you? Your the exact kind of person that is a cancer to the future hunting as you cant see the forest for the trees

 

[ladogg411]

How long have you been a hunter?

Over 30 years.

I hear you but I disagree with you about compromising. I do not think the animals rights or anti hound hunting crowd would do the same for us and therefore feel that we should fight to not lose an inch of what we have. ...

This is about compromising with the silent majority that are non-hunters (not anti-hunters). The silent non-hunters are the people that sway these issues. Many of these non-hunters are going to vote for Prop 91/101 because they won't be given a more moderate proposition in its place because the hunting community is largely falling in line behind the hound hunters of CRWM.

If Coloradans instead put up a competing ballot measure that banned hound hunting of cats, but retained spot & stalk, you could give the silent majority a more reasonable prop to vote for.

You lost prop 114 (wolves). But maybe the silent majority would have supported a more moderate measure. (e.g. introduce wolves by 12/31/23, but ONLY IF they haven't migrated themselves by that date).

 

[KurtR]

Over 30 years.

This is about compromising with the silent majority that are non-hunters (not anti-hunters). The silent non-hunters are the people that sway these issues. Many of these non-hunters are going to vote for Prop 91/101 because they won't be given a more moderate proposition in its place because the hunting community is largely falling in line behind the hound hunters of CRWM.

If Coloradans instead put up a competing ballot measure that banned hound hunting of cats, but retained spot & stalk, you could give the silent majority a more reasonable prop to vote for.

You lost prop 114 (wolves). But maybe the silent majority would have supported a more moderate measure. (e.g. introduce wolves by 12/31/23, but ONLY IF they haven't migrated themselves by that date).

Your dreaming and why would any of the hound hunters support you if you are going to throw them under the bus. Is it even really worth hunting cats if you cant use hounds

 

[180ls1]

I don't know what is causation or correlation but in CA they banned hound hunting for bears in 2013 and you can still hunt them today, although they are still pushing for a complete ban.

They have successfully banned lion hunting and bobcat hunting by all means.

 

[Douglasr]

I wish joe would stick to subjects he’s educated on and understands like medicine and quit giving opinions on hunting.

 

[Douglasr]

Joe’s like a teenager who jerked off for the first time claiming he’s Rico Strong.