Idaho proposed special season open sight centerfire

[IdahoBeav]

However, Customweld is right about success rates of September archery and Oct/Nov rifle being about the same for OTC elk.

 

[WRO]

Unit 39 does have OTC archery during the rut.

It’s easier to kill deer during august and September with a bow than during the rut IMHO. (Archery only for discussion)

 

[2531usmc]

False choice here.

Having more tag types across shorter seasons limits success rates, while also giving more opportunities for guys to land a tag.

Completely eliminating the modern rifle season though, it's an absolute no-go for me - damn near at the same level as gun control itself. It's not right, to the point of immorality, to completely eliminate the ability for me, my 12yo daughter, or my 75yo dad, to hunt with the weapon that gives them the best chance of success.

I read about of the people here on rokslide that are killing deer and elk at 600 and 700 yards and even further. Clearly, advantages in rifles and aiming/sighting systems are driving a quantum leap in lethality.

Game managers have to compensate somehow and reverting back to primitive weapons and modern weapons w/iron sights would be a reasonable compromise

In addition, the biggest advantage in transitioning to iron sights is that we lower the number of people on rokslide complaining about Leupold scopes

 

[idelkslayer]

It shouldn’t. The general trend is that there are less opportunities, less animals, less open land, more competition with dedicated hunters- and yet the success rates are the same or slightly elevated. That is technology at play. For all of those reasons, if technology didn’t make rifle killing easier for the masses, success rates would be drastically down. But they aren’t.

And that is a very valid explanation.

 

[RockAndSage]

Kids already get special seasons, special tag odds, etc etc. How easy do we need to make it for them? How many of us adults needed special gifts to be able to get interested in hunting? Kids who are going to be hunters dont need participation trophy punched tags.

I'm pretty certain you didn't do this on purpose, but it's been bizarre watching my words get warped and twisted across this thread to the point where this is what someone would pick up - that I'm somehow arguing for special, privileged seasons. It's the exact opposite - just leave people TF alone to hunt how they have been with common modern weapons, and anyone wanting additional tags/seasons for restricted tech can be left TF alone to voluntarily pursue those. Leave the ALW category alone. The young, the old, and the broken can keep doing what they've been doing - that's my point about those types of people. Leave them TF alone.

 

[Slickhill]

I do not hunt either of the states in question so I’m not likely to be directly affected any time soon one way or another.

But I’ve often thought of something similar, even to the point of trying to find out how to get in touch with the right people on my state wildlife commission that is in charge of rule making to possibly discuss similar ideas.

In my state, which is primarily a whitetail deer state. We do have huntable populations of mule deer and elk but they are outside the scope in this case. There is an ever more vocal proponent group railing to end the rut rifle hunt and make us a one buck per year state. We’ll have giants like KS they say.

I would much rather see tech limited and opportunity stay as it is now. Get rid of crossbows, any muzzleloader that Jeremiah Johnson wouldn’t recognize, corn feeders, trail cams, LRFs.

The department here has long stated that they are about opportunity. If opportunity comes with some challenges I’m good with that as long as the opportunity remains.

My Grandfather hunted his last two seasons with an aperture sight and post front on his rifle. Glaucoma and Macular degeneration made looking through a scope impossible but he could still manage to utilize a peep with an effective range of about 75 yards. Maybe a rare case of circumstance but if an 87 year old dude can do it and accept the limitations surely more able bodies could. You wouldn’t know if that big buck happened to walk by 30 yards from the spot where you usually sit if you were on the couch because you couldn’t get a tag.

I can say with certainty that if the unit I hunt in CO said hey if we go to irons only you can get a buck tag every year instead of every 3rd or 4th year I would be more than happy to drag one of my peep sighted rifles out and hunt deer every year.

 

[WeiserBucks]

I do not hunt either of the states in question

Either of them? Is there two different states of Idaho?

 

[Slickhill]

I was referring to Idaho and Utah having been referenced. My mistake

 

[swopie]

I didn’t read all eleven pages. Comments for this were open in October, I hope all of you that have pros or cons spoke up then. Not that they listen but at least opinions were voiced.

 

[2531usmc]

If you ban rangefinders, things will change significantly.

We’ll have the rangefinder police check everyone for compliance!

 

[Rock’N Tacos]

I know Idaho Mule deer and elk populations have struggled the last several years. It would be interesting to apply this across the board for a couple years and see if we can get them to bounce back. I purposely haven’t picked up a mule deer tag the last few years because of the bad winter they had a couple years ago.

I am not opposed to open sights. It would force guys to have to actually hunt and learn to stalk in close instead of taking 700 yard shots across a canyon (which I am guilty of having killed several animals between 500-1000 yards).

 

[bowhuntercoop]

If they offered a trad only unit I would be all about it! Switching to full time trad 5 years ago taught me a ton about animal behavior, how to really get close to critters sub 25-30 yards to kill em, and made me really realize how lazy most guys are when it comes to hunting.

How anyone could get enjoyment outta shooting a critter at 300-600-900 yards is mind boggling to me.

My kids are young. They all have stick bows. If they wanna kill deer with a stick bow it’s gunna take hard work on their part.

If they wanna compound hunt to break the ice that’s fine to, heck they can rifle hunt for all I care to get them into the sport.

I’m all about more time in the woods, hunting and teaching them woodsmanship. Once they have the fundamentals of woodsmanship, animal behaviors and actually learn how to hunt then the killing will come second nature.

I wish more states would go to harder ways to kill critters. Make guys actually work for it instead of punching a trigger hundreds of yards away.

 

[IDVortex]

...at least FRT aren't illegal to hunt with in ID yet.

 

[braydencase7]

I dont understand it. Is it to just make hunting harder for the sake of making it harder? Is it for more opportunity on top of the seasons we have? If that's the case sure. If they want to improve the mule deer herd there are other ways to do that which they havent done and im not sure a open sight season actually makes a reasonable impact. Seems like we are reinventing the wheel here

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[cal30_sniper]

I dont understand it. Is it to just make hunting harder for the sake of making it harder? Is it for more opportunity on top of the seasons we have? If that's the case sure. If they want to improve the mule deer herd there are other ways to do that which they havent done and im not sure a open sight season actually makes a reasonable impact. Seems like we are reinventing the wheel here

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It's proposed to reduce hunter success rates therefore allowing more tags for any given unit to be distributed with the same population reduction effect.

Many believe it will also help increase age class.

 

[SDHNTR]

If they offered a trad only unit I would be all about it! Switching to full time trad 5 years ago taught me a ton about animal behavior, how to really get close to critters sub 25-30 yards to kill em, and made me really realize how lazy most guys are when it comes to hunting.

How anyone could get enjoyment outta shooting a critter at 300-600-900 yards is mind boggling to me.

My kids are young. They all have stick bows. If they wanna kill deer with a stick bow it’s gunna take hard work on their part.

If they wanna compound hunt to break the ice that’s fine to, heck they can rifle hunt for all I care to get them into the sport.

I’m all about more time in the woods, hunting and teaching them woodsmanship. Once they have the fundamentals of woodsmanship, animal behaviors and actually learn how to hunt then the killing will come second nature.

I wish more states would go to harder ways to kill critters. Make guys actually work for it instead of punching a trigger hundreds of yards away.

Yes! Woodsmanship! Bring it back!

The pendulum has swung too far in the direction of tactical weekend Rambo’s acting like wannabe snipers.

I ran into some dudes antelope hunting in Nevada this year who looks like they just stepped off the battlefield. Rifles slung across their chest, tactical pants tucked into the top of tactical boots. They even had helmets on with communications equipment. It was absurd, and they looked like total dorks. That is not hunting!

 

[Formidilosus]

just leave people TF alone to hunt how they have been with common modern weapons, and anyone wanting additional tags/seasons for restricted tech can be left TF alone to voluntarily pursue those. Leave the ALW category alone. The young, the old, and the broken can keep doing what they've been doing - that's my point about those types of people. Leave them TF alone.

Do you understand that the issue is that there aren’t enough animals for that? Irons only is an attempt to limit kill rates in certain units, so that they don’t have to cut tags.
Would young, old, and broken people be happier with “A” tag- or “no” tag? Beyond that, they’re not changing all seasons and units- just certain units. You want to use scopes- go to units that are normal. You will probably draw less tags, but you can use what you want. You want better odds of drawing a tag- you can choose to go to irons only. I fail to see why this is an issue.

 

[SDHNTR]

I dont understand it. Is it to just make hunting harder for the sake of making it harder? Is it for more opportunity on top of the seasons we have? If that's the case sure. If they want to improve the mule deer herd there are other ways to do that which they havent done and im not sure a open sight season actually makes a reasonable impact. Seems like we are reinventing the wheel here

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Everything else, which yes would probably be more helpful, is too politically challenging. It’s hard to fight development on winter range because of the Almighty dollar. It’s hard to help with predator management because of tree huggers. Habitat restoration takes money and manpower, both of which are in short supply. Any other actionable solution has major implementation challenges. Equipment/technology restrictions, while potentially less effective (yet still effective on some level ) is something that can actually be put into action.

 

[Str8shooter]

Speaking as a Colorado resident hunter, I could see this markedly improving the hunting experience. Its routine to see guys shooting well past their effective ranges at animals and often from roads. While Im not sure advances in optics and ballistics have impacted hunter success based on harvest statistics (hard to see how it wouldn't be, but thats an aside), its absolutely resulted in numerous stalks being ruined by guys fancying themselves Chris Kyle and sending rounds 800+ yds while Im midway on a stalk from antelope to elk. This simply doesn't happen during our open site only muzzleloader season. An open site season would also be just another opportunity to develop proficiency as a hunter in a unique arena. Having a hard time seeing the downsides.

 

[RockAndSage]

Man Form, I'm trying really hard to figure out here what the disconnect is...whether it's that my exact words are being skimmed, or innocently misinterpreted, of if this is picking a fight where one is just not necessary.

So, before hitting reply, please - read each of these points from a well-meaning, well-intended lens and point of view, and let's see if we can clear things up. I've already made each of them before, but in brief:



1) Irons-only tags = more opportunity = more hunters in woods each year = good. I'd be happy to see it as an additional option in every state for every zone, and I'd apply every year too.

2) Whole zones being tech-restricted all year = f'cking over people. Leave the majority of the season the normal Any-Legal-Weapon category, so that normal people, along with the young, broken, and elderly can continue their way of life, and keep passing that culture on with minimum barrier to that.

3) Hunter kill has just about the least impact of all the things affecting herd numbers, compared to winter kill, habitat loss, and especially the last decade or so, wolf, cougar, and bear predation, as well as disease in some areas. Restricting hunter opportunity rates when those other pressures are vastly more dominant in impacting herd sizes is like giving someone a hair tonic when they're going bald from cancer. Focus on the root problem. Herd sizes are just not impacted significantly from overhunting by Leupold. It's a red-herring argument. It's also one that is internally divisive, and keeps us focused on the wrong things.

4) Governance: Running an experimental season tag is great - wiping out a whole zone's any-legal-weapon season as an "experiment" is 3rd world $h*thole levels of governance, based on feelsies, not data.

5) Politics: The pro-wolf, anti-hunting crowd is doing every indirect and direct policy action they can to limit hunter success, and to wall off vast swaths of land to anything other than foot-borne, non-hunting recreation. Which also f'cks over the same people on the margins as would happen in tech-restricted hunt zones. They're already packing our wildlife departments, in their "long march through the institutions" (google it). Any precedent set in pro-hunting states in removing optics and making it harder to hunt - not matter how well-meaning - will be leveraged by places like CO, OR, CA, WA, etc, to make it harder to hunt at all. It will be salami-sliced down over decades into an increasingly burdensome, onerous event that will kill off hunting culturally in the majority of the voting population - and giving the ability, eventually, to just ban it entirely. It's their playbook, it's strategic, it's got a long time-horizon, and wiping out ALW tags plays right into that. No matter how well-meaning.

Want more animals? It won't come from arguing over the scraps of tag allotment, arguing with each other which gun control hunt-restrictions are more palatable this year. It comes from addressing the roots of population numbers, and fighting like hell against those external threats - not against each other.

All of this stuff is interrelated - preserving the values in our culture of hunting is the only thing that will ensure our great-grandchildren will be able to hunt on public lands. We need to be strategic.

So, irons-only tags and seasons = good.

Eliminating ALW tags entirely = cutting our own throats culturally and playing into anti-hunting efforts.