Idaho proposed special season open sight centerfire

[WeiserBucks]

Less success = more opportunity (which has absolutely zip to do with deer herd survival, but will put a tag in your pocket more often).

How can we get a tag in our pocket more often than every year?

 

[cal30_sniper]

How can we get a tag in our pocket more often than every year?

Do you really think that will last at the current rate? Does that apply for non-residents?

The switch of the unit I hunted in UT this year dropped it from something like a 6-7 point unit to a 1-2 point unit for non-residents. YMMV in ID as a resident. Here in NM, my preferred muzzy gotten tag has gotten much higher draw odds since the switch to irons only.

 

[WeiserBucks]

Do you really think that will last at the current rate? Does that apply for non-residents?

Yes, and no to the NR's.

 

[bowrunner81]

I personally think an open sights rifle season would be a heck of a lot of fun. I shot open sights for most of my youth in target shooting and really only got into scoped rifles in the last 10 years. I get both sides of the argument, but I would participate if it went to that.

 

[cal30_sniper]

Yes, and no to the NR's.

There are more people hunting now than there ever has been before. Percentagewise, maybe, maybe not, but total number without a doubt, and they're doing it with orders of magnitude more effective weapons systems than previous generations used.

Even your seemingly bottomless reserve of resident tags will likely run out eventually.

 

[WeiserBucks]

Even your seemingly bottomless reserve of resident tags will likely run out eventually.

You may be proven correct at some point.

 

[BRTreedogs]

Are we going to restrict iron sight weapons to single shot or lever action only?


Pretty sure I could be pretty deadly with a 6arc AR and multiple mags.

Steven Segal style hunting.
Ratta tat tat got bunch rounds in my gat.

 

[cal30_sniper]

Are we going to restrict iron sight weapons to single shot or lever action only?


Pretty sure I could be pretty deadly with a 6arc AR and multiple mags.

Steven Segal style hunting.
Ratta tat tat got bunch rounds in my gat.

Utah went with non-semiauto restrictions.

I heard mostly bang-bangs and bang-bang-bangs in the woods. Never did see anyone hauling dead deer around other than my own, but I didn’t spend a lot of time prowling on the roads.

 

[BRTreedogs]

Also after years of archery hunting.

Any rifle feels like a long range weapon.

 

[bowrunner81]

No reason you cant run open sights during a normal rifle hunt

I have plans to if I draw a moose tag, but I also like to eat meat. So a general over the counter hunt Ill go with whatever is legal.

 

[cal30_sniper]

No reason you cant run open sights during a normal rifle hunt

It’s a different environment when everyone is forced under a restriction vs one guy doing it voluntarily.

My observation was that in general animals were getting pushed around differently, and also likely surviving brushes that would have otherwise ended them. Multiply that by a thousand or more hunters and you end up with a different hunting experience.

 

[BRTreedogs]

If you were a one legged 12 year old girl with poor eye sight you would think differently

If that was the case I’d have my prosthetic leg turned into a machine gun.

Coppers would never know with my pant leg down.

 

[HunterGatherer]

No- that’s exactly the point. When archery seasons were allowed in almost all the states, it was precisely because there were so few archers relative, and their success rates were so abysmally low that giving them a season did not have any material effect on the herd or animal take. That is now not remotely true. It is the same for muzzleloaders.





Yes actually. They are beyond the intended purpose when those seasons were established.




So nearly twice? And, that isn’t reliable true side by side. People that use traditional bows are by and large dedicated to some level to it, which is not the same for compounds. So you are seeing a wide population (including extremely low skill) have nearly twice the kill rate of a small population that by and large are dedicated to the traditional bow.

Compounds are drastically more efficient at killing than traditional bows- saying they aren’t is being purposely deceitful.





That’s not true across the board. It depends on species and terrain, and seasons. A few years ago this very topic came up on here, and I showed quite a few units where rifle and archery were neck and neck on elk kill numbers.




Sure- but doing so while not addressing that a crap ton of animals are being killed in “special” seasons that were allowed because they weren’t going to kill any real numbers of animals- also needs to be addressed. Bow hunters aren’t any more special than rifles hunters in this.




In the west that is relatively few, and most that are, were very recent.




Why do cross bows get regulated out of archery, but massive technological advancements in mechanical bows doesn’t?


Keep in mind/ I teach courses that are dedicated to modern, optimum rifles and equipment, and it is purposefully to make hunters more lethal. Technology needs to be heavily curtailed- the only difference is that I am being intellectually honest and willing to put “my thing” on the table; I just want the other communities to do so as well.

So your argument is what ? That all archery seasons should be trad only ? Put a stick bow in the hands of every bow hunter and it won’t fix anything.

Success rate is only a minor consideration anyway as compared to total harvest. Look at the numbers for unit 39 for example. The rifle harvest is 14 times what the archery harvest is. So if you cut the archery harvest in half by making everyone shoot a stick bow you save about 60 deer. If you cut the rifle harvest in half it’s 900 deer saved .

Are we trying to affect the actual harvest or just trying to make sure everyone gets a handicap just because ?

 

[wind gypsy]

Vets was just an example, not a special category of privilege. I'm talking about broken and old bodies in this context. It simply strikes me as deeply morally wrong for there to be so many weapon/tech restrictions that some old f*cker, a wrecked dude, or 12yo girl is forced to have a much higher level of stalking and physical stamina skillsets to be successful. Again, these restricted tech seasons only serve to advantage already skilled, fit, and dedicated hunters. This shouldn't be a game of worthiness.

Kids already get special seasons, special tag odds, etc etc. How easy do we need to make it for them? How many of us adults needed special gifts to be able to get interested in hunting? Kids who are going to be hunters dont need participation trophy punched tags.

 

[SDHNTR]

I don’t understand the complaints about archery. These comments must be from people who don’t actually bow hunt. The difference between effective range of trad archery and compound archery is only 20-30 yds, depending on the shooter. The advancements in compound technology account for about another 20 yds increase in effective range in, say from 40yds to 60yds. Do people really think that is a major shift in tech that leads to overharvest ? The success rates for archery tags would suggest otherwise. The 100yd archery kill is still extremely uncommon. It seems common because when it happens there’s so much talk about it.

Agree completely. This is 1000 yard argument, not a 100 yard (or less) argument!

 

[idelkslayer]

I think it is good to add open-sight rifles as a category of weapon in Idaho code so that IDFG has that as an option in the future. However, I don't think we actually need that kind of restriction right now.

Last year I put up this graph showing how success rates have changed for different weapons over time for elk hunting but it seems reasonable that it would apply to mule deer hunting as well. I researched the statistics from 2001 to 2023 and found that average hunter days for each weapon type increased by about 1 day. Year to year success varies a lot and seems to follow herd numbers and the effects of hard winters but generally all trend upwards. I concluded that increased effort (hunter days) was minor enough that it doesn't explain the increase in success. The increase in success appears to be technology based.

Which makes the small increase in rifle success a bit of a puzzle, especially when compared the dramatic increase in archery and muzzleloader success. After all, there has been a lot of advancement in rifle hunting technology. I can only conclude that the success rate hasn't changed much due to the fact that the vast majority of hunters are not like us. They are not practicing and shooting competently. They shoot a couple rounds at a pie plate at 100 yards and call it good. Despite that I do think an open-sight restriction would reduce rifle success.

Last year

 

[Customweld]

So your argument is what ? That all archery seasons should be trad only ? Put a stick bow in the hands of every bow hunter and it won’t fix anything.

Success rate is only a minor consideration anyway as compared to total harvest. Look at the numbers for unit 39 for example. The rifle harvest is 14 times what the archery harvest is. So if you cut the archery harvest in half by making everyone shoot a stick bow you save about 60 deer. If you cut the rifle harvest in half it’s 900 deer saved .

Are we trying to affect the actual harvest or just trying to make sure everyone gets a handicap just because ?


View attachment 976955

If you are going to use a unit for comparison, use one that has an otc archery rut hunt.
The percentages aren't that different. I was stuck on elk. Disregard.

 

[Formidilosus]

Which makes the small increase in rifle success a bit of a puzzle,

It shouldn’t. The general trend is that there are less opportunities, less animals, less open land, more competition with dedicated hunters- and yet the success rates are the same or slightly elevated. That is technology at play. For all of those reasons, if technology didn’t make rifle killing easier for the masses, success rates would be drastically down. But they aren’t.

 

[IdahoBeav]

Unit 39 does have OTC archery during the rut.

 

[Customweld]

Unit 39 does have OTC archery during the rut.

My mistake, for some reason I was stuck on elk.