Idaho proposed special season open sight centerfire

[Formidilosus]

I am never going to be in favor of restricting lethality. I hate special seasons. I want animals killed humanely and recovered to feed people.

So you are good with drone use and thermals? What about remote viewing stations? If that’s good, what armed drones? What about punt guns?

 

[IDVortex]

If we are able to start hunting by planes, im starting a OF to get myself a helicopter.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

So you are good with drone use and thermals? What about remote viewing stations? If that’s good, what armed drones? What about punt guns?

Fine, your reductio ad absurdem wins. You are right, there are limits. But those limits assume the goal is the humane killing and recovery of game animals within bag limits.

I’m perfectly okay with limits on finding game (no drones, thermals, shooting over bait, trail cameras, etc.), but once it comes to the shot, I want methods that result in the highest recovery rates.

 

[HunterGatherer]

After researching this a lot more I’ve come to the conclusion that for IDFG this isn’t about herd management at all. I think It’s much more about hunter management and increasing “hunter satisfaction” as mentioned in the IDFG strategic plan, recently published. That’s why they brought in the working groups to provide input.

Looking at the longer term mule deer population history, the decline of the herds is actually not a “collapsing” as I stated before. Deer populations have definitely declined in our lifetimes so it’s easy to feel like it’s on a death run. But, It’s actually a correction in an unsustainable population eruption in the peak years (80’s). At least that’s how IDFG frames it…

I think they could have just increased muzzleloader options or added a Traditional archery season in addition to the regular archery season but maybe most rifle hunters aren’t willing to make that jump. The iron sights tags will just be another option for guys that are willing to work a little harder with lower chance of success to get out of the main rifle season, which in many areas doesn’t even feel like hunting anymore- feels more like combat fishing for steelhead.

So no one is going to be forced off the mountain by these new tags. It’s just going to be an additional option for people that want something else.

 

[WeiserBucks]

After researching this a lot more I’ve come to the conclusion that for IDFG this isn’t about herd management at all.

They never have been, unless culling to satisfy farmers.

 

[HunterGatherer]

Watch the May 2025 commission meeting video in this link if you want a deep dive into the history of mule deer in Idaho…

Mule deer 2025: Here's where we are, and from where we've come

Mild-to-normal winters typically grow Idaho’s mule deer herds, or more accurately, allow herds to grow. But as history has often shown, the good times don't last forever. Another normal winter in 2024-25 means odds are in our favor that we’ll have as good or better mule deer hunting than last year.

idfg.idaho.gov

 

[IDMNT17]

I'm just not sure what this proposal will accomplish. In my mind nothing. There will be just as much wound/loss as there currently is. There will be just as many hunters taking "unethical" shots with open sights as there currently are with scoped guns. We have guys with peeps on muzzleloaders killing animals at extended ranges. That will translate over to these centerfires and animals will still be killed at extended ranges that some feel are too far. This is just a barrier of entry for some because they wont buy a new rifle with open sights. Those hunters that are routinely successful will still be. I'm not saying I'm for this, but getting rid of rangefinders would have the most impact overall.

 

[HunterGatherer]

These topics always sound to me like a bunch of kids debating about “you must be this tall to ride” at the amusement park. And the minimum height for which they advocate is always about 0.1” shorter than they are. They all want to ride, but they don’t want to wait in line.

The real killers will always find a way to kill. They don’t mind limiting themselves as long as it drives away competition.

When I listen to people talking about passing up bulls or bucks to “wait for a better one”, I don’t get impressed. That’s an attitude that only makes sense if animals are so abundant that the challenge is in finding a big one. And a feeling that is anathema to to anyone who gets excited just to be out hunting and is happy just to see animals. I don’t think much of someone who is only going to be happy with a 360 bull or 180 deer (or whatever number applies here. I loathe the idea of trophy hunting and have never paid much attention to scores).

Speaking for myself, I’m not trying to impress anyone by passing opportunities on immature animals. I killed deer and elk easily when I was primarily a rifle hunter. It’s not that hard to go out and whack a 2-3 year old deer and a raghorn bull every year with a rifle in Idaho.

I hunt for the meat, but also because I like to hunt. I like to be out there, especially during the rut seasons because that’s where/when all the good stuff happens. If I used the most advanced weapon allowed by law and found the easiest animal to kill every year I would hunt far fewer days and get much less satisfaction from the hunt.

Hunting a mature mule deer buck is a completely different experience than shooting the first thing with horns. Killing a herd bull vs the first spike that comes running in to a cow call is also a completely different experience. Until you’ve done it, you probably won’t be impressed by anyone that holds out for a mature animal. Not everyone hunts for the same reasons friend.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

And getting inside say 125 yards before making that shot lowers your recovery rate?

They kill the shit outta stuff with pointy sticks and open sighted muzzleloaders every single year. Why is it then a problem with a centerfire?

I would get rid of bow hunting and muzzleloader seasons before restricting more effective means of producing humane kills and increased chances of recovery.

I’d rather have everyone in the county out there hunting, killing, and recovering game shot with modern scope-sighted rifles than have hunting be a hobby for a few elites.

The proposed restrictions that really bother me in this discussion are the rangefinder and scope ones. We have tools that help hunters know the exact range to the animal and therefore adjust sights properly, but we want to restrict that so that more hunters are guessing at ranges? How is that good for humane kills? How does that aid in recovery of dead animals? And, instead of being able to place a shot precisely, you would rather have “the average slob hunter” out there using iron sights?

Of course, this won’t affect people like me. I have been estimating range and using iron sights my whole life. The only animal I have ever used my range finder on was a groundhog.

 

[Flyjunky]

So you are good with drone use and thermals? What about remote viewing stations? If that’s good, what armed drones? What about punt guns?

Come on, we all know nobody is saying to go that far or would be ok with that.

That would be like me saying that for those who want to put primitive or limited weapons to lower success…..I propose that we need to all go back to spears and loin cloths only.

 

[bowhuntercoop]

Even with irons, a scoped rifle, a freaking rock thrown. Why are guys not ranging animals? I see this in the trad world, since they shoot” instructive” they don’t need to range. Ughhh news flash, yes you do.

Ranging the animals with any weapon will only increase the chances of successful harvest vs not ranging.

 

[wind gypsy]

Kids are probably the least impacted by an iron sights rule. They learn fast and generally have better eyesight than adults. Many (and at one point not so long ago, most) kids start learning on iron sights, so they have a lot more recent experience with it than adults. I know I cut my teeth head-shooting squirrels with an iron-sighted pellet gun, and 12 year-old Ozarkansas would whoop 31 year old Ozarkansas in an iron sight shoot-off. “Think of the children” is not a valid argument against this, imo.

If we’re having to choose between cutting back on season length, cutting back on number of tags, or restricted weapons to reduce harvest, I would choose restricting weapons every time. It’s valid to disagree with that or take the position that no change is necessary, but I don’t see how restricting modern guns to open sights is going to cause the cultural death of hunting.

If whitetail hunting in the Midwest thrived under shotgun-only restrictions, I expect western hunting will do just fine under iron. Sight restrictions.

My thoughts exactly. Maybe I'm having a hard time with the whole vulnerable kids angle because it wasn't that long ago i was ecstatic about my dad buying me a 12 gauge with iron sighted smooth bore slug barrel. Killed my first few deer with that gun when i was little tike and it beat the shat out of me. No sadness or woe is me because i didn't have a rifled barrel with a scope, i got to go hunting and that was awesome.

 

[WRO]

I brought up rangefinders as the biggest change in effective killing in my lifetime, I wasn’t proposing banning them just pointing out an obvious fact.

I think the idea is dumb as it will just lead to overcrowding in other units as most people will just hunt other units instead of ones with restrictions.

IDFG cares about opportunity and selling tags. 39 for example is getting ready to go off a cliff population wise as winter range is disappearing at a rapid rate in the danskins and foothills from development, yet IDFG is hell bent on killing every deer in the unit with late archery, kid doe murder, and running the season the longest of the general rifle seasons.

 

[wind gypsy]

I brought up rangefinders as the biggest change in effective killing in my lifetime, I wasn’t proposing banning them just pointing out an obvious fact.

I think the idea is dumb as it will just lead to overcrowding in other units as most people will just hunt other units instead of ones with restrictions.

IDFG cares about opportunity and selling tags. 39 for example is getting ready to go off a cliff population wise as winter range is disappearing at a rapid rate in the danskins and foothills from development, yet IDFG is hell bent on killing every deer in the unit with late archery, kid doe murder, and running the season the longest of the general rifle seasons.

Wouldn't be surprised if there would be transition periods. If fewer people hunted due to restrictions hunting might get better which would draw more people to wanting to hunt it.

 

[wind gypsy]

I feel like i've been arguing for it in this thread but in reality it's just been more so against some of the logic against it.

The actual application makes a lot of difference. For example, I wouldn't advocate for it in areas that have deer with lots of cover or the ability to allude hunters already. Just the seasons/locations where the ability to escape hunters is low would make sense. Where hunter harvest is a large driver of the buck population. Easiest application is probably in areas that are already limited entry.

 

[IdahoBeav]

IDFG cares about opportunity and selling tags. 39 for example is getting ready to go off a cliff population wise as winter range is disappearing at a rapid rate in the danskins and foothills from development, yet IDFG is hell bent on killing every deer in the unit with late archery, kid doe murder, and running the season the longest of the general rifle seasons.

The deer population would explode out there if they just eliminated doe harvest from the general tag.

 

[WRO]

The deer population would explode out there if they just eliminated doe harvest from the general tag.

Eliminating the 1500 either sex draw tags would help as well.

 

[HunterGatherer]

I brought up rangefinders as the biggest change in effective killing in my lifetime, I wasn’t proposing banning them just pointing out an obvious fact.

I think the idea is dumb as it will just lead to overcrowding in other units as most people will just hunt other units instead of ones with restrictions.

IDFG cares about opportunity and selling tags. 39 for example is getting ready to go off a cliff population wise as winter range is disappearing at a rapid rate in the danskins and foothills from development, yet IDFG is hell bent on killing every deer in the unit with late archery, kid doe murder, and running the season the longest of the general rifle seasons.

39 is maybe not as bad as we think. There was a major crash in ‘16/17’ but the population has shown steady recovery since then. Biologists now think, based on declining fawn weights that the unit is approaching carrying capacity. Lower Fawn weights correlate with higher winter kill …

The thing we’re seeing in units like 39 is a lack of mature bucks, which makes it feel like the unit is declining in general. I quit hunting the late archery hunt for lack of mature bucks. They just aren’t there like they used to be. This is most likely caused by gaps in the age class by severe winter kill events more than overharvest. Another component that I would speculate on is that recent fires have opened up a massive amount of country. The animals in burns are much more exposed and easier to kill with long range weapons even though they increase good deer habitat in the long run.

 

[Formidilosus]

Fine, your reductio ad absurdem wins. You are right, there are limits. But those limits assume the goal is the humane killing and recovery of game animals within bag limits.

I’m perfectly okay with limits on finding game (no drones, thermals, shooting over bait, trail cameras, etc.), but once it comes to the shot, I want methods that result in the highest recovery rates.

Ok- Tracking Point or other visually controlled fire systems?

 

[Formidilosus]

Come on, we all know nobody is saying to go that far or would be ok with that.

Aren’t thermals legal right now in Idaho? Aren’t drone usage for scouting and recovery of animals common and massively increasing in areas?

Literally people ARE saying just that. People are acting as if this is the first time that weapons restrictions and capabilities have had to be introduced to a “normal” season.