Ice/snow comparison between rifles

[SDHNTR]

My rifles firing pin assemblies get blasted clean with gun scrubber and blown out with compressed air. Then a light wipe down for corrosion protection (I live on a peninsula surrounded by saltwater) with a synthetic oil tested to extreme cold (usually Tetra). Never had a problem even in below zero weather. This years bull elk hunt involved several single digit mornings. Of course my gun was a M70 though! Never even a worry crossed my mind.

If precip is falling or on trees/brush I have to hike through, I use Remi Warren’s rifle cover.

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus

Do you use a rifle cover when condition dictate and you may end up with a frozen rifle?

Normal waking around hunting with Tikkas, no. It’s strapped to the pack. Riding a snow mobile and the like, yes I’ll try to cover it.

This was opening day this year. Rain, turned to ice, turned to snow, then back to rain, then back to snow-







That was strapped to the pack and covered by a wing and it still looked like that. It worked fine btw.



Last year waiting for it to break to shoot an elk-




Now, I couldn’t/wouldn’t do that with almost any other rifles. With any rifle that uses a 700 compatible trigger, I wrap them completely and also carry a small can of de-icer… and still end up with a non-functioning rifle at some point.

Would be great to see Kimber, Browning, Weatherby and Savage rifles given the same treatment.

Where are they on the R700 - M70 - Tikka trigger spectrum?

I don’t have those here now, but they generally don’t do well. Savages are as bad or worse than Remington based actions and triggers, kimber has the same issue that M70’s do- people believe the open trigger is a good thing- it’s not. Open triggers just make it easier for snow and ice to get to the trigger. Weatherby and Browning have been about like Howa From what I’ve seen.


From doing this a lot and hunting in winter conditions that tend to cause issues 100 plus days a year, reliability would be ranked pretty close to this-

1). Properly built AR15- not even close.

2). Blaser- have never seen one that failed, though haven’t seen nearly as many either.

3). AI- almost never have a failure due to ice/snow

4). Tikka- almost never have a failure due to ice/snow

5). Sako TRG- almost never have a failure due to ice/snow

6). Winchester Pre64- not many issues, though the claw extractor and trigger will freeze with ice often enough.

7). Kimber- about the same as the M70.

8). Howa/Browning, Weatherby- issues are common in bad conditions. Would cover and make sure to work the bolt and dry fire the trigger often.

8). Savage- lots of issues and would not choose one based on that alone.

9). The worst- any rifle using a Remington based trigger (all the customs). Not only do most actions do very poorly in ice/snow, but they can not overcome the trigger. The triggers freeze and lock up or become extremely unsafe (as this TriggerTech is) when debris or snow/ice gets in there.

 

[eric1115]

Garand Thumb does a similar thing with a good selection of semi auto rifles (and pistols and more rifles, plus rifles in mud in a few other videos) for those who are interested in such things. Entertaining and very informative.

 

[SDHNTR]

Normal waking around hunting with Tikkas, no. It’s strapped to the pack. Riding a snow mobile and the like, yes I’ll try to cover it.

This was opening day this year. Rain, turned to ice, turned to snow, then back to rain, then back to snow-


View attachment 491721


View attachment 491720

That was strapped to the pack and covered by a wing and it still looked like that. It worked fine btw.



Last year waiting for it to break to shoot an elk-

View attachment 491722


Now, I couldn’t/wouldn’t do that with almost any other rifles. With any rifle that uses a 700 compatible trigger, I wrap them completely and also carry a small can of de-icer… and still end up with a non-functioning rifle at some point.





I don’t have those here now, but they generally don’t do well. Savages are as bad or worse than Remington based actions and triggers, kimber has the same issue that M70’s do- people believe the open trigger is a good thing- it’s not. Open triggers just make it easier for snow and ice to get to the trigger. Weatherby and Browning have been about like Howa From what I’ve seen.


From doing this a lot and hunting in winter conditions that tend to cause issues 100 plus days a year, reliability would be ranked pretty close to this-

1). Properly built AR15- not even close.

2). Blaser- have never seen one that failed, though haven’t seen nearly as many either.

3). AI- almost never have a failure due to ice/snow

4). Tikka- almost never have a failure due to ice/snow

5). Sako TRG- almost never have a failure due to ice/snow

6). Winchester Pre64- not many issues, though the claw extractor and trigger will freeze with ice often enough.

7). Kimber- about the same as the M70.

8). Howa/Browning, Weatherby- issues are common in bad conditions. Would cover and make sure to work the bolt and dry fire the trigger often.

8). Savage- lots of issues and would not choose one based on that alone.

9). The worst- any rifle using a Remington based trigger (all the customs). Not only do most actions do very poorly in ice/snow, but they can not overcome the trigger. The triggers freeze and lock up or become extremely unsafe (as this TriggerTech is) when debris or snow/ice gets in there.

Didn’t that Minox scope eventually go tits up? Surprised to see you using it.

 

[Formidilosus]

Didn’t that Minox scope eventually go tits up? Surprised to see you using it.

No. It had a .4mil shift in the beginning, that was traced to a stick stuck in the barrel channel that once removed went back to zero. Hasn’t shifted at all since.

 

[SDHNTR]

No. It had a .4mil shift in the beginning, that was traced to a stick stuck in the barrel channel that once removed went back to zero. Hasn’t shifted at all since.

Ahhh. Roger. Glad it’s working well.

What’s the story on that wood stock? No moisture concerns with the wood? As utilitarian as your rifle set ups seem to be, the wood surprises me too.

 

[yeti14]

M70 firing pin froze up on me last year. Freezing rain and snow. It was probably my fault though, I tend to over oil living in southeast AK

 

[Formidilosus]

Ahhh. Roger. Glad it’s working well.

What’s the story on that wood stock? No moisture concerns with the wood? As utilitarian as your rifle set ups seem to be, the wood surprises me too.

Haha. It’s a Tikka M595 Master Sporter stock. Fantastic in shootability. Wood is fantastic in all aspects but weather. I solved that by using JB Weld or bedding compound and permanently glueing the bottom metal in and filling the action area up. The whole inside is bedding compound.

 

[SDHNTR]

Got it. Exactly what I figured.

 

[mac53]

I have read this a couple of times now and been thinking about buying a Remington 700.
Around Indiana we don't really get the kind of weather that you get out west, although this rifle will be going to Colorado to elk hunt.
Should I forget the Remington and look at something different? I sure don't want or need an unsafe firearm but, on the flipside, I have never had a problem with the 2 I own.

I do not modify the triggers in anyway, so does the problem affect modified triggers only or all model 700 triggers?

 

[Formidilosus]

I have read this a couple of times now and been thinking about buying a Remington 700.
Around Indiana we don't really get the kind of weather that you get out west, although this rifle will be going to Colorado to elk hunt.
Should I forget the Remington and look at something different? I sure don't want or need an unsafe firearm but, on the flipside, I have never had a problem with the 2 I own.

I do not modify the triggers in anyway, so does the problem affect modified triggers only or all model 700 triggers?

All 700 compatible triggers. There are no R700 compatible triggers that are truly drop safe. The best being the Geissele Two Stage trigger.


I would ask, why do you want a Remington, or a Remington derivative?

 

[mac53]

No real reason. Would a Ruger American be a better choice?
I am on a fairly tight budget and really thought I wanted a Kimber Hunter and have been looking and can't seem to find one would that be a better choice?

 

[Formidilosus]

No real reason. Would a Ruger American be a better choice?

No, Americans generally shoot ok from a bench, but are compromised in nearly every other area.

 

[Dobermann]

Haha. It’s a Tikka M595 Master Sporter stock. Fantastic in shootability. Wood is fantastic in all aspects but weather. I solved that by using JB Weld or bedding compound and permanently glueing the bottom metal in and filling the action area up. The whole inside is bedding compound.

Plus ... Form is secretly a romantic!

 

[eamyrick]

@Formidilosus Thoughts on the newer Winchester MOA box trigger?

 

[livingandlearning]

From doing this a lot and hunting in winter conditions that tend to cause issues 100 plus days a year, reliability would be ranked pretty close to this-

1). Properly built AR15- not even close.

Form,

What would you say are your top 3 choices for a properly built AR15?

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus Thoughts on the newer Winchester MOA box trigger?

Have t used it enough to say. I will say, that triggers that aren’t specifically designed and rigorously tested for snow/ice/sand/debris do not generally do well in those conditions.

 

[UTJL]

Would be great to see Kimber, Browning, Weatherby and Savage rifles given the same treatment.

Where are they on the R700 - M70 - Tikka trigger spectrum?

The safety on my savage 116 froze 2 weeks ago. Temps were in the high 20s/low 30s. I got a minimal amount of snow (<1oz) on the action while setting up on a feeding area. I couldn’t move the safety at all, even with my knife. In the end I had to warm some water up in my mouth and spit it on the safety. I was able to unload the rifle before it refroze. I’ll be selling the rifle this off-season.

 

[Forestryguy]

I would really be interested in seeing how a Blaser R8 did in this kind of test.

 

[Reekus]

Garand Thumb does a similar thing with a good selection of semi auto rifles (and pistols and more rifles, plus rifles in mud in a few other videos) for those who are interested in such things. Entertaining and very informative.

He's done two now, has a frozen pistol edition and some muddy gun editions as well.