Ice/snow comparison between rifles

[Formidilosus]

I am assuming the tikka has the stock trigger spring, would you expect anything to go differently with an aftermarket spring like the Mountain Tactical? I recently put one in my t3x and was pretty shocked by how much beefier the stock spring is.

All of my triggers are factory. The lighter replacement springs do cause some issues with light strikes. Beyond the fact that I consistently see way more issues with trigger slighter than factory will allow.

 

[PathFinder]

I did something similar a couple years back. Rifles were a Bergara (basically R700) and a T3X. The test involved taking the action out of the stock and completely soaking it, then setting it outside in sub zero F temps.
Both froze up and wouldn't function. The primary difference I observed was that the Bergara/700 needed to completely thaw in order to function again. With the barreled action removed and easy access to the trigger, it was easy to get the Tikka functioning again by scraping at the ice a bit. Not the ideal way to fix it in the field though.
Are there any more rugged actions that fare better? Accuracy International maybe?

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[Huntin Fool]

Am I the only one that doesn’t get the purpose of this? I’ve hunted in snow and freezing rain multiple times as well as very negative degree weather and I’ve never had to worry about my rifle not running. Now I usually do my best to cover the action during heavy precipitation….

 

[SouthPaw]

Any reason the T3 factory is performing better than the T3 in Bravo? Seeing one needing more hammering to open the bolt than the other, the chassis shouldn't matter. I could understand the frozen metal AICS mags not working before the plastic factory, but what other explanations on the action(s)?

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[HighUintas]

Am I the only one that doesn’t get the purpose of this? I’ve hunted in snow and freezing rain multiple times as well as very negative degree weather and I’ve never had to worry about my rifle not running. Now I usually do my best to cover the action during heavy precipitation….

To get an idea of which action is the least reliable or would take the most work to get functioning should you decide to pour water into the action of your rifle during a 0F snowstorm when you have no shelter. You probably drank too much before deciding to do this.

Or maybe after falling into a creek with your rifle in 0F weather.

 

[Grumman]

How would an AR perform in a test like this?


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[Elk botherer]

Am I the only one that doesn’t get the purpose of this? I’ve hunted in snow and freezing rain multiple times as well as very negative degree weather and I’ve never had to worry about my rifle not running. Now I usually do my best to cover the action during heavy precipitation….

It provides information on the reliability of different manufacturers designs in inclement weather situations while hunting. My experience is spot on with the Remington 700 freezing up. We had some run ins with wolves during our archery hunt a couple of years ago and my buddy brought his 80’s Remington 700 7mm rem mag along on our next hunt and we got on a hot wolf track right at first light. My archery elk hunt turned into a wolf hunt right then. It had snowed six inches overnight and was still snowing. After tracking that wolf for five or six hours through nasty rugged country and timber we caught up to it. My buddy had a shot at 150 yards and when he squeezed the trigger nothing happened and the wolf walked away. My buddy hadn’t fallen in the snow or dunked his rifle in a creek but just the fresh falling snow and occasional tree branch dumping snow on us was enough his firing pin froze up costing us a wolf in the heart of our honey hole. This thread provides information to help prevent our situation from happening to others and ensuring the most reliable weapon being in the hands of the hunter or at least to be aware of proper maintenance if one does own a weapon that is prone to freezing up. Our hard earned lesson wouldn’t have been necessary and if I had read this thread I would have advised my buddy to use a rifle cover or be more cautious in keeping the action dry and then maybe we would have knocked that wolf down…

 

[Huntin Fool]

It provides information on the reliability of different manufacturers designs in inclement weather situations while hunting. My experience is spot on with the Remington 700 freezing up. We had some run ins with wolves during our archery hunt a couple of years ago and my buddy brought his 80’s Remington 700 7mm rem mag along on our next hunt and we got on a hot wolf track right at first light. My archery elk hunt turned into a wolf hunt right then. It had snowed six inches overnight and was still snowing. After tracking that wolf for five or six hours through nasty rugged country and timber we caught up to it. My buddy had a shot at 150 yards and when he squeezed the trigger nothing happened and the wolf walked away. My buddy hadn’t fallen in the snow or dunked his rifle in a creek but just the fresh falling snow and occasional tree branch dumping snow on us was enough his firing pin froze up costing us a wolf in the heart of our honey hole. This thread provides information to help prevent our situation from happening to others and ensuring the most reliable weapon being in the hands of the hunter or at least to be aware of proper maintenance if one does own a weapon that is prone to freezing up. Our hard earned lesson wouldn’t have been necessary and if I had read this thread I would have advised my buddy to use a rifle cover or be more cautious in keeping the action dry and then maybe we would have knocked that wolf down…

But are you sure it was the weather that caused his firing pin to freeze up or was it from too heavy of a grease or oil on it that caused it….I’ve yet to have fresh falling snow or freezing rain to stop a rifle yet And I’m certainly never going to pour water over my rifle

 

[Formidilosus]

Am I the only one that doesn’t get the purpose of this? I’ve hunted in snow and freezing rain multiple times as well as very negative degree weather and I’ve never had to worry about my rifle not running.

I’ve had two rifles this season from people I hunted with that locked up during wet snow and ice. Around half the times that I use or hunt with someone using a certain rifle system, their are issues with snow and ice.

Any reason the T3 factory is performing better than the T3 in Bravo? Seeing one needing more hammering to open the bolt than the other, the chassis shouldn't matter. I could understand the frozen metal AICS mags not working before the plastic factory, but what other explanations on the action(s)?

It seems to be that the larger opening in the trigger guard and the mag well is allowing more water in the bottom side of the action. The factory stock and mag is pretty well sealed up.

How would an AR perform in a test like this?

Phenomenally. A properly built one with a real two stage trigger is by far the least effected/most reliable rifle system in adverse weather. With the ejection port cover closed it’s very sealed, and any ice/debris that gets in the trigger opening, a good two-stage will break/move out of the way . I’ll pour water on one tomorrow to show, but it doesn’t matter.

 

[Antares]

All of my triggers are factory. The lighter replacement springs do cause some issues with light strikes. Beyond the fact that I consistently see way more issues with trigger slighter than factory will allow.

How does a light trigger spring cause light strikes? It’s not the striker spring.

 

[Formidilosus]

How does a light trigger spring cause light strikes? It’s not the striker spring.

I don’t know if, haven’t looked into it as I don’t want any of the field guns with triggers lighter than 2.5-2.75lbs. All I can say is that multiple Tikka’s with the lighter trigger spring have had intermittent issues with light strikes on 5.56 and 7.62mm ammunition, and when switched back to factory spring shot it fine. Having said that, I know of a bunch with the replacement springs that work just fine- might be just a coincidence.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

I was reading g a book earlier where the author was talking about his pre64 Winchester, he felt that it was more reliable in freezing and shitty conditions than the Remingtons he’s seen.

 

[Wapiti1]

For the record, NO bolt action bolt should have oil/grease in it. All are designed to be run dry and cold weather standard procedure is to degrease anything that moves. Only two places should be oiled/greased and very lightly: the back of the bolt lugs and the cocking cam. Otherwise, no oil or grease anywhere else including the trigger. It hardens in cold weather, and just collects dust that will wear your firearm. I'm not talking rust prevention for the exterior, only moving parts.

I have yet to see anyone that doesn't over oil their action. They don't need any oil to work fine for decades of hard use. The parts are hardened steel and other than the two mentioned above, none see high loads during cycling.

Light strikes are caused by the sear dragging on the cocking piece after firing. This is usually too little overtravel in the trigger. When springs are changed, other screws get adjusted. At least that is what I typically find when one comes into the shop.

Jeremy

 

[Elk botherer]

But are you sure it was the weather that caused his firing pin to freeze up or was it from too heavy of a grease or oil on it that caused it….I’ve yet to have fresh falling snow or freezing rain to stop a rifle yet And I’m certainly never going to pour water over my rifle

I can’t say 100% it was the weather because I didn’t open his rifle up after the hunt but I also know it never failed to fire in several other cold weather outings before and after that outing. That was a wet and cold day scrambling through the brush and timber tracking those wolves and he had his rifle slung across his back most of the time due to the rough terrain and snow. It was a heartbreaker. Good luck and happy trails.

 

[Lawnboi]

@Formidilosus

Do you use a rifle cover when condition dictate and you may end up with a frozen rifle?

 

[Wrench]

For the record, NO bolt action bolt should have oil/grease in it. All are designed to be run dry and cold weather standard procedure is to degrease anything that moves. Only two places should be oiled/greased and very lightly: the back of the bolt lugs and the cocking cam. Otherwise, no oil or grease anywhere else including the trigger. It hardens in cold weather, and just collects dust that will wear your firearm. I'm not talking rust prevention for the exterior, only moving parts.

I have yet to see anyone that doesn't over oil their action. They don't need any oil to work fine for decades of hard use. The parts are hardened steel and other than the two mentioned above, none see high loads during cycling.

Light strikes are caused by the sear dragging on the cocking piece after firing. This is usually too little overtravel in the trigger. When springs are changed, other screws get adjusted. At least that is what I typically find when one comes into the shop.

Jeremy

X2. Jewell has it down. Hose it clean with naptha, dry and rock on.

 

[Wrench]

I had a rifle freeze to my back 2 days ago. It was-15f and the perspiration through my coat froze to my rifle.

I choose m70's when it's deep cold solely based on my perception of the bolt and trigger systems. The m70 trigger is beyond simple and the bolt mechanically blocks the firing pin. This gives me the highest confidence in my options....but that's purely from opinion and my experience.

 

[BjornF16]

Would be great to see Kimber, Browning, Weatherby and Savage rifles given the same treatment.

Where are they on the R700 - M70 - Tikka trigger spectrum?

 

[Wrench]

A few years ago I froze up a r700 on an elk hunt. Fortunately the elk were feeding and I had this torch. Keep it deep in your pack or in a pocket if it's sub zero.

https://www.amazon.com/SOTO-Soto-Pocket-Torch-2019/dp/B005G3PQJQ/ref=asc_df_B005G3PQJQ/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312134375915&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13614695304613681381&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9059811&hvtargid=pla-661633205688&psc=1

 

[prm]

I had a Kimber MT freeze up one morning. Went to chamber a round and it did not feel quite right. Looking closer, it had not cocked the firing pin. Cycled a few times, no luck. Fired up the MSR Pocket Rocket and warmed it up and then it worked fine. I typically keep the bolt dry so not sure what happened. Now I make sure rifle is covered if in the tent, or just leave out hanging on a tree.