Ice/snow comparison between rifles

[chinook907]

Only time I've had a bolt rifle fail was with spindrift while riding a snogo in deep powder, 5-15 degrees F, rifle slung crossways on my back. Model 700 in 6mm Rem. Took awhile to get the bolt working and able to close the chamber on a round. Almost cost me a wolf.

I like this test BTW, thanks.

 

[Marbles]

Thanks for taking the time and sharing the results.

 

[Legend]

I have been asked by multiple people to do an ice and snow reliability eval between rifles/actions/triggers. Tthis is not a “test”, it is just a view at what generally happens. Doing a legitimate test requires more rifles and consistent conditions than I have. So…


The rifles:

1). Tikka T3 in KRG Bravo chassis

2). Sauer 100 factory

3). Howa 1500 Alpine factory

4). Remington M7 with TT trigger and Bansner stock

5). Winchester Pre 64 M70 factory

6). Tikka T3 factory

7). Sako TRG 42 factory

View attachment 491188



This will be done in multiple steps, worst case working back back to easy to see any differences that show themselves. Every rifle is started in exactly the same condition- empty chamber, closed bolt, safety on, magazine loaded and/or inserted.



1: Total Failure

8oz of water poured directly into action, trigger, and magazine; then rifle is dropped in snow, covered for 10 min. After ten minutes
, rifles were pulled out of snow and set standing upright for ten minutes. Temperature was -11°F.

The first portion is designed for none of them to work- it is a total failure event.

View attachment 491195


Unsurprisingly none of them worked.


1). T3/Bravo safety moved, was bolt would not move rearward past halfway back. Trigger frozen completely. Magazine could be removed after breaking ice.

2). Sauer 100 had a completely frozen trigger and safety did not unlock tigger or bolt. Magazine could be removed after breaking ice.

3). Howa everything locked up- safety, bolt, trigger. Floor plate was opened after breaking ice and prying.

4). M7 TT was able to scrape ice off and work bolt. Magazine did not feed. After breaking and scraping ice, and bashing release latch, got floor plate open and dumped rounds after breaking ice. Hammered bolt open and dropped one round into chamber. It fired. After that it continued to slam fire- rifle fired with no activation of trigger when was bolt closed. Could not do anything to fix.

5). Win M70 Pre 64- Safety worked, trigger moved, bolt handle rotated but bolt would not move rearward at all. Was able to scrape and hammer open the floor plate.

6). T3 factory- safety was locked on safe. Bolt would not move. Trigger was locked. Magazine could be removed after breaking ice.

7). Sako TRG42- everything locked up as safety could not be moved. Magazine could be removed after scraping ice.


Following this, all rifles were placed inside the cab of the truck and driven back for approximately 12 min before being brought inside a 65° building to thaw and being checked every 5 minutes with a primed case.

Rifles will be listed in order that they returned to fully functioning.

1). T3 factory worked correctly in all aspects with a sticky bolt as soon as pulled from the truck. 30 min total.

2). Winchester Pre 64 started cycling first, trigger still didn’t work until 1 hour and 5 minutes.

3). Sako TRG42, once safety could be moved, rifle worked fully. 1 hour 5 minutes.

4). Tikka T3/Bravo. 1 hour 5 minutes.

5). Sauer 100, once trigger and safety started working, rifle functioned correctly. 1 hour 25 minutes.

6). Howa 1500, once safety could be moved, rifle worked correctly. 1 hour 30 minutes.

7). Remington M7 with Trigger Tech trigger. Rifle fired in sub 5 minutes, trigger slam fired until 1 hour 53 minutes.




None of the rifles worked correctly out of the snow. The only one that fired was the Remington and it remained unsafe for nearly two hours. The first rifle to work correctly was the factory Tikka T3.

As no rifle was expected to work from this trial, nothing is surprising. The main takeaways are how fast the factory T3 came back, how long the Remington remained unsafe, and how long it took the Howa and Sauer’s safeties to work.



Next will be 4 ounces of water and no snow….

You must really enjoy cleaning and lubing guns. Thanks for all your effort though as it is interesting!

 

[LeftyWilbury]

Nov 19, 10am, between 0-5F, clear conditions with snow on the ground, Tikka T3 went boom. Innocent deer murdered. Rifle was slung on my pack on the painful slog in, and out. I'll leave the rest of the testing to the professionals. That was a brutal morning.

 

[Formidilosus]

You must really enjoy cleaning and lubing guns. Thanks for all your effort though as it is interesting!

The only thing I do/will do is wipe the M70 metal with a bit of oil. The rest will just dry out. There’s no cleaning.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

Tikka bolt internals are supposed to be run dry.

I did not know that

 

[roosiebull]

The only thing I do/will do is wipe the M70 metal with a bit of oil. The rest will just dry out. There’s no cleaning.

That’s good to hear, I have a similar maintenance protocol, and I stick to it pretty strictly

Used to not worry about drying them out until I got a very rusty firing pin

 

[HighUintas]

@Formidilosus have you done this test or similar test with a blaser r93 or r8? I'm wondering how the safety and completely enclosed action and bolt head on the r8 would handle the ice.

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus have you done this test or similar test with a blaser r93 or r8? I'm wondering how the safety and completely enclosed action and bolt head on the r8 would handle the ice.

Not exactly the same, however in similar they do very well do to the sealed action and the trigger swap with a mag change.

 

[Lawnboi]

I did not know that

Yea they don’t reccomend any oil in there even.

I do put a dab of grease on the cocking ramp and bolt lug faces but that’s all my bolts get.

 

[Formidilosus]

Yea they don’t reccomend any oil in there even.

I do put a dab of grease on the cocking ramp and bolt lug faces but that’s all my bolts get.

I degrease everything when I get them. A dab of lube or grease on the bolt lugs, and in warmer weather a lite cloth rub of oil on the bolt body. No oil or lube what so ever in the bolt or firing pin.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

Mine got the acetone treatment inside about an hour ago

 

[Dobermann]

@TxxAgg and @BLJ: you don't need to clutter the thread with 'Tagged' or 'Tag' - just use the 'Watch' button at the top of the thread, and then choose whether you want updates emailed to you or not, or if you just want this thread added to a watch list.

You're welcome!

 

[Formidilosus]

OP is updated…

 

[TxxAgg]

@TxxAgg and @BLJ: you don't need to clutter the thread with 'Tagged' or 'Tag' - just use the 'Watch' button at the top of the thread, and then choose whether you want updates emailed to you or not, or if you just want this thread added to a watch list.

You're welcome!

You are cluttering the thread Leave me alone...this is the second time you've called this to my attention.

I like to use the search function for threads I've posted in.

 

[Helislacker]

I degrease everything when I get them. A dab of lube or grease on the bolt lugs, and in warmer weather a lite cloth rub of oil on the bolt body. No oil or lube what so ever in the bolt or firing pin.

Do you ever have issues with rust on the bolt/action in extreme cold? Just got off a late season elk hunt in over -20 and the Tikka CTR got rust in a few spots on the bolt/barrel/action despite having some oil in those areas. To clarify, it was about -40°C for most of the hunt. Didn’t wipe down at the end of the day.l when brought inside

 

[pyrotechnic]

Do you ever have issues with rust on the bolt/action in extreme cold? Just got off a late season elk hunt in over -20 and the Tikka CTR got rust in a few spots on the bolt/barrel/action despite having some oil in those areas. To clarify, it was about -40°C for most of the hunt. Didn’t wipe down at the end of the day.l when brought inside

You're going to have condensation when you bring items from cold temps into warmer ones. I usually just make sure that I don't shove guns inside cases where the condensation can't evaporate back when it comes up to temp. You still need to check and give exposed metal surfaces a periodic wipedown or scrub to prevent/remove rust.

 

[Formidilosus]

Do you ever have issues with rust on the bolt/action in extreme cold? Just got off a late season elk hunt in over -20 and the Tikka CTR got rust in a few spots on the bolt/barrel/action despite having some oil in those areas. To clarify, it was about -40°C for most of the hunt. Didn’t wipe down at the end of the day.l when brought inside

Sure. I just don’t care. Wipe off and move on.

 

[Formidilosus]

Updated…

 

[id_jon]

I am assuming the tikka has the stock trigger spring, would you expect anything to go differently with an aftermarket spring like the Mountain Tactical? I recently put one in my t3x and was pretty shocked by how much beefier the stock spring is.