I propose the “Fair opportunity in America’s Outdoors Act”

[3forks]

it’s kind of comical when the guys dog on you being from TX and our public lands then you explain to them that our public lands are actually dang good hunts, better than most private property, the cost, and ZERO license plate discrimination the conversation changes real quick.


This is exactly what a lot of guys aren’t understanding. Case in point, there’s constant calls to support this season, that method, our access all the time on this forum. Asking for any and all hunters to please help and support. People won’t forget how they have been treated and then those people will wonder why they can’t get any support. Last time I checked we’re all Americans but I guess some have forgotten that.

Oh please… You and the others from Texas who have posted in this thread epitomize and re-enforce every negative stereotype about people from Texas and then you claim that “it’s kind of comical when the guys dog on you from being from TX”.

First, to pretend like Texas and its residents don’t like to see themselves as Texans first, then Americans is a joke. Even going back in history to before Texas was a state, that’s something Texans have always envisioned themselves as. And, how often have you guys promoted the idea of seceding from the United States? Seems like that’s a pretty frequent discussion.

Second, find me a few posts on this forum where anyone from Texas or who has hunted Texas has ever had anything good to say about a public land hunt in Texas. I’ve seen numerous threads where someone is thinking about moving to Texas, and asks for insight into the public land hunts down there. I can’t recall anyone having anything good to say about it.

You also argue that guys aren’t understanding of what western states will be losing by reducing non-resident opportunities. I think we understand very well, and would contend that you guys don’t understand that public land and the animals that live on them aren’t a commodity.

 

[diamond10x]

Oh please… You and the others from Texas who have posted in this thread epitomize and re-enforce every negative stereotype about people from Texas and then you claim that “it’s kind of comical when the guys dog on you from being from TX”.

First, to pretend like Texas and its residents don’t like to see themselves as Texans first, then Americans is a joke. Even going back in history to before Texas was a state, that’s something Texans have always envisioned themselves as. And, how often have you guys promoted the idea of seceding from the United States? Seems like that’s a pretty frequent discussion.

Second, find me a few posts on this forum where anyone from Texas or who has hunted Texas has ever had anything good to say about a public land hunt in Texas. I’ve seen numerous threads where someone is thinking about moving to Texas, and asks for insight into the public land hunts down there. I can’t recall anyone having anything good to say about it.

You also argue that guys aren’t understanding of what western states will be losing by reducing non-resident opportunities. I think we understand very well, and would contend that you guys don’t understand that public land and the animals that live on them aren’t a commodity.

Nice assumptions about somebody you don’t know from Adam. I’ve never said any of those things you claim to know about myself. It would be like me saying every guy that lives in a western state thinks they're gods gift to the ultimate outdoorsman and conservationist. I’ve never once said Tx should be the model for public land but the little we do have that most residents have no clue about is actually pretty good. Why would I jump to tell somebody oh go here and there it’s great? Oh that’s right, put in the work and figure it out yourself just like what 99/100 of the posts on here tell people asking for places to go.

I guess I’m not explaining what I mean very well, maybe an example can get my point across. Washington loses its spring bear hunt, guys are asking for support and money to help fight it. I might try to hunt Washington for bears one day, but as a fellow hunter I should donate a few extra dollars or send a few emails or whatever it is their asking. Then I remember all the things so many resident hunters of Washington said about others that they don’t want me there and I shouldn’t hardly have a chance at any bear tags or anything else cause my license plate and DL. Do you think I’m just going to ignore them and they get what they asked for or am I going to jump to help the fight against closing seasons?

 

[cuerro viejo]

I don’t think it’s going to stop.

Oh please… You and the others from Texas who have posted in this thread epitomize and re-enforce every negative stereotype about people from Texas and then you claim that “it’s kind of comical when the guys dog on you from being from TX”.

First, to pretend like Texas and its residents don’t like to see themselves as Texans first, then Americans is a joke. Even going back in history to before Texas was a state, that’s something Texans have always envisioned themselves as. And, how often have you guys promoted the idea of seceding from the United States? Seems like that’s a pretty frequent discussion.

Second, find me a few posts on this forum where anyone from Texas or who has hunted Texas has ever had anything good to say about a public land hunt in Texas. I’ve seen numerous threads where someone is thinking about moving to Texas, and asks for insight into the public land hunts down there. I can’t recall anyone having anything good to say about it.

You also argue that guys aren’t understanding of what western states will be losing by reducing non-resident opportunities. I think we understand very well, and would contend that you guys don’t understand that public land and the animals that live on them aren’t a commodity.

Project much? I’ve said great things about TX public on this thread and other posts. Search my posts. I do wish Texas had more mule deer and elk opportunity but it’s the nature of the roughly million acres of National parks in mule deer and elk habitat. Nonetheless Texas has opportunity. I don’t care about competition ..unlike some.

Texas has one state issued auction tag…other two are private land donated.. so come again on commodities?

Yelp I’m clueless to western public land. 5 tags, three states and 40’ish days last year…

If NM eliminates all NR sheep tags, how much do you NR will support sheep efforts in NM?

Why would I renew my WSF membership when they send NM 500K plus a year for sheep projects?

 

[tdhanses]

Project much? I’ve said great things about TX public on this thread and other posts. Search my posts. I do wish Texas had more mule deer and elk opportunity but it’s the nature of the roughly million acres of National parks in mule deer and elk habitat. Nonetheless Texas has opportunity. I don’t care about competition ..unlike yourself.

Texas has one state issued auction tag…other two are private land donated.. so come again on commodities?

Yelp I’m clueless to western public land. 5 tags, three states and 40’ish days last year…

If NM eliminates all NR sheep tags, how much do you NR will support sheep efforts in NM?

Why would I renew my WSF membership when they send NM 500K plus a year for sheep projects?

Because you are supposed to care more about the sheep, now this doesn’t apply to residents, only nonresidents.

Be very interesting how much resident support would be there if all western states took away the hunting opportunity.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Because you are supposed to care more about the sheep, now this doesn’t apply to residents, only nonresidents.

Be very interesting how much resident support would be there if all western states took away the hunting opportunity.

I wish We could all see that we are in this together and all of us eventually loose.

NR loose in large allocation cuts and complete loss of opportunity, residents eventually loose do to exponentially increases cost no longer offset by NR, and eventually Conservations effort both legislation and funding fails all together with out NR support.

 

[3forks]

Project much? I’ve said great things about TX public on this thread and other posts. Search my posts. I do wish Texas had more mule deer and elk opportunity but it’s the nature of the roughly million acres of National parks in mule deer and elk habitat. Nonetheless Texas has opportunity. I don’t care about competition ..unlike some.

Texas has one state issued auction tag…other two are private land donated.. so come again on commodities?

Yelp I’m clueless to western public land. 5 tags, three states and 40’ish days last year…

If NM eliminates all NR sheep tags, how much do you NR will support sheep efforts in NM?

Why would I renew my WSF membership when they send NM 500K plus a year for sheep projects?

Sorry, I missed noting the only glowing endorsement of hunting on public lands coming from a guy who doesn’t care about competition (i.e. crowds).

You say you do wish there were more opportunity, but is Texas able to create or convert more private land to public? When I mention land as a commodity, I don’t think you can disagree that the nature of hunting in Texas is primarily based on leases. Someone with as much western hunting experience as yourself should recognize that differs from what hunting a western state is based on. Also, residents of western states are trying to prevent public lands from becoming private and from leases becoming as prevalent as they are in other parts of the country.

And, if New Mexico eliminated non-resident tags sheep tags, I would absolutely expect that most non-residents would stop supporting sheep efforts in that state. However, no one is talking about taking away non-resident opportunities completely in this discussion. We’ve primarily been talking about a 90/10 split. If because you have a reduction in opportunity to hunt for a species as a non-resident means that you no longer see any value in contributing to habitat or species efforts, that’s up to you.

 

[tdhanses]

Sorry, I missed noting the only glowing endorsement of hunting on public lands coming from a guy who doesn’t care about competition (i.e. crowds).

You say you do wish there were more opportunity, but is Texas able to create or convert more private land to public? When I mention land as a commodity, I don’t think you can disagree that the nature of hunting in Texas is primarily based on leases. Someone with as much western hunting experience as yourself should recognize that differs from what hunting a western state is based on. Also, residents of western states are trying to prevent public lands from becoming private and from leases becoming as prevalent as they are in other parts of the country.

And, if New Mexico eliminated non-resident tags sheep tags, I would absolutely expect that most non-residents would stop supporting sheep efforts in that state. However, no one is talking about taking away non-resident opportunities completely in this discussion. We’ve primarily been talking about a 90/10 split. If because you have a reduction in opportunity to hunt for a species as a non-resident means that you no longer see any value in contributing to habitat or species efforts, that’s up to you.

But the general theme is that with time more and more NR opportunities will shrink.

 

[cmahoney]

I don’t think guys understand how hard it is for residents to get draw tags and the amount of animals on the landscape compared to white tail.

The other take away is I don’t think they realize the quality of hunt they get when they do draw a premium tag.

We are only residents in one state and we should be able to hunt our home state more frequently, which is why 90/10 is fare.

 

[tdhanses]

I don’t think guys understand how hard it is for residents to get draw tags and the amount of animals on the landscape compared to white tail.

The other take away is I don’t think they realize the quality of hunt they get when they do draw a premium tag.

We are only residents in one state and we should be able to hunt our home state more frequently, which is why 90/10 is fare.

I do wonder if resident demand continues if we’ll see a native resident draw over resident, would make sense to give more opportunities to those born in states for the limited resource especially for big 5 type hunts that many will never draw.

I would assume in every state this kind of change wouldn’t be political suicide since most voters that hunt will be born and raised, the rest that don’t hunt won’t care but would give preference.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Sorry, I missed noting the only glowing endorsement of hunting on public lands coming from a guy who doesn’t care about competition (i.e. crowds).

You say you do wish there were more opportunity, but is Texas able to create or convert more private land to public? When I mention land as a commodity, I don’t think you can disagree that the nature of hunting in Texas is primarily based on leases. Someone with as much western hunting experience as yourself should recognize that differs from what hunting a western state is based on. Also, residents of western states are trying to prevent public lands from becoming private and from leases becoming as prevalent as they are in other parts of the country.

And, if New Mexico eliminated non-resident tags sheep tags, I would absolutely expect that most non-residents would stop supporting sheep efforts in that state. However, no one is talking about taking away non-resident opportunities completely in this discussion. We’ve primarily been talking about a 90/10 split. If because you have a reduction in opportunity to hunt for a species as a non-resident means that you no longer see any value in contributing to habitat or species efforts, that’s up to you.

Yes because everyone is really open to give out glowing reviews of essentially OTC units they hunt. I guess I’m more open to helping

Texas was deeded out well before most western statehoods, with that said it does have a large area of public land presence. There is a big difference in land % that’s public and actual public land.

when you factor in TX wildlife species are non migratory, and some of that land is carrying 1 deer to 5-10 acres, hunting is a lot better then some allude

Texas is actually one of the few states adding public land on State side. Example Powerhorn Ranch and Big Bend Ranch state park

But yes Texas would be a terrible public land state to hunt IF it had a large % migratory animals, but it doesn’t. This is Why it’s never going to be a good comparison to Western States, completely different Wildlife.

Now, Are Texas leases really that much different then Utah CWMU, CO RFW and LO, NM ranch only LO, NV LO tags, WY LO tags, MT LO Etc.


Reducing to 90/10 actually promotes more utilization of auction and LO tags. Look at the low NR allocation states, as majority they all share heavy LO and auction tags.

 

[sneaky]

We should charge 5x as much for corn being shipped to Texas to get thrown on the ground to feed whitetails and exotics on high fence operations. Considering corn is a commodity in short supply this year seems a waste to be feeding it to deer when it could be feeding people.
Guys think that tags just grow on trees for residents in every state out west. That's not even remotely true. I can't even hunt some of the units around my house without drawing a tag, and those odds for me as a resident are less than 1%. It appears to be a foreign concept to Texans that if we let everyone hunt because, by God they're Americans!, we would annihilate mule deer and elk populations all over the West in less than 5 years. You guys don't give a damn about wildlife management, you just want tags that you feel entitled to. You're entitled to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Nothing else. It's a privilege, not a right, to hunt anything in any of the other 49 states that you aren't a resident of.

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[bobinmi]

I'm good with it the way it is. I like killin shit. In MI I get to kill significantly more big game animals every year than any western state I can think of. I haven't read this entire gaggle because I'm sure its a mess. I'd love to see the idea that Chris Roe brought up on kifarucast. One elk tag, per year, in the entire country. No more roadshows takin out a dozen elk every year in the name of "cOnSUrvashun". (I know that a dozen is being hyperbolic)

 

[tdhanses]

We should charge 5x as much for corn being shipped to Texas to get thrown on the ground to feed whitetails and exotics on high fence operations. Considering corn is a commodity in short supply this year seems a waste to be feeding it to deer when it could be feeding people.
Guys think that tags just grow on trees for residents in every state out west. That's not even remotely true. I can't even hunt some of the units around my house without drawing a tag, and those odds for me as a resident are less than 1%. It appears to be a foreign concept to Texans that if we let everyone hunt because, by God they're Americans!, we would annihilate mule deer and elk populations all over the West in less than 5 years. You guys don't give a damn about wildlife management, you just want tags that you feel entitled to. You're entitled to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Nothing else. It's a privilege, not a right, to hunt anything in any of the other 49 states that you aren't a resident of.

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Is there a lot of corn grown in ID? Serious question as I don’t know.

You do realize most corn is grown to feed animals?

For the unit by your house with a less then 1% chance for residents, doesn’t it then make sense to require an ID birth cert to even apply for tags that are that limited?

Hunting is a privilege no matter if your a resident or not.

 

[AG8]

I do wonder if resident demand continues if we’ll see a native resident draw over resident, would make sense to give more opportunities to those born in states for the limited resource especially for big 5 type hunts that many will never draw.

I would assume in every state this kind of change wouldn’t be political suicide since most voters that hunt will be born and raised, the rest that don’t hunt won’t care but would give preference.

Of all the arguing on here about federal this or state that, who has a right to what and why. Personal choices on where to live and at what cost and on and on. Everyone throwing in on what is or isn’t “American”, this is by far the least “American” idea I have seen yet.

 

[tdhanses]

Of all the arguing on here about federal this or state that, who has a right to what and why. Personal choices on where to live and at what cost and on and on. Everyone throwing in on what is or isn’t “American”, this is by far the least “American” idea I have seen yet.

Why because it would effect you?

 

[AG8]

Why because it would effect you?

No, because you are advocating that people should be treated as second-class citizens. It is the right of every US citizen to take up residence in any part of the country they so desire. That is part of the foundation of the United States. Yes, I was born and reside in a western state. I also can’t stand it when people start spouting off their life and residency resume like it somehow should matter to anyone…

 

[bsnedeker]

Very interesting progression in this thread. It starts out talking about NR's pulling out of draws because they can't get the amount of tags they want....that didn't work. Switched to 'Well, then let's privatize public lands'....that didn't work.

Now the latest tactic is: Well, we won't support conservation in your states if we don't get to chase the specific animals with shit growing out of their heads!

I'll just say this, if the only reason you are supporting conservation and hunting rights throughout the country and the rest of the world was because you wanted to kill those animals then you never supported those things. I have never, nor will I ever, hunt sheep in any other state other than MT (and even that is HIGHLY unlikely) and yet I belong to sheep conservation organizations in multiple states. I'm never going to hunt in Canada, but I'm happy to support the folks in BC as they fight against the nonsense going on there.

If you don't want to support these animals because you can't personally kill them....well, good riddance!

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[tdhanses]

No, because you are advocating that people should be treated as second-class citizens. It is the right of every US citizen to take up residence in any part of the country they so desire. That is part of the foundation of the United States. Yes, I was born and reside in a western state. I also can’t stand it when people start spouting off their life and residency resume like it somehow should matter to anyone…

And what does this have to do with limiting the right to live in any state? If hunting is that important plan for your kids future. How is it different then limiting people that don’t reside in a state, it’s just another possible qualifier for a limited resource that is a hobby that needs to be managed as there is more demand then supply.

 

[tdhanses]

Very interesting progression in this thread. It starts out talking about NR's pulling out of draws because they can't get the amount of tags they want....that didn't work. Switched to 'Well, then let's privatize public lands'....that didn't work.

Now the latest tactic is: Well, we won't support conservation in your states if we don't get to chase the specific animals with shit growing out of their heads!

I'll just say this, if the only reason you are supporting conservation and hunting rights throughout the country and the rest of the world was because you wanted to kill those animals then you never supported those things. I have never, nor will I ever, hunt sheep in any other state other than MT (and even that is HIGHLY unlikely) and yet I belong to sheep conservation organizations in multiple states. I'm never going to hunt in Canada, but I'm happy to support the folks in BC as they fight against the nonsense going on there.

If you don't want to support these animals because you can't personally kill them....well, good riddance!

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Thing is many are this way, I bet only 2% of hunters are even members of conservation orgs or even give more then just buying a lic/tag.

I think most agree with the model but very few go beyond buying a lic/tag, other then the federal excise tax dollars on items they buy that qualify.

Another way to look at it, how many donate time and money far exceeding their annual hunt costs because wildlife mean so much to them?

 

[cmahoney]

We should charge 5x as much for corn being shipped to Texas to get thrown on the ground to feed whitetails and exotics on high fence operations. Considering corn is a commodity in short supply this year seems a waste to be feeding it to deer when it could be feeding people.
Guys think that tags just grow on trees for residents in every state out west. That's not even remotely true. I can't even hunt some of the units around my house without drawing a tag, and those odds for me as a resident are less than 1%. It appears to be a foreign concept to Texans that if we let everyone hunt because, by God they're Americans!, we would annihilate mule deer and elk populations all over the West in less than 5 years. You guys don't give a damn about wildlife management, you just want tags that you feel entitled to. You're entitled to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Nothing else. It's a privilege, not a right, to hunt anything in any of the other 49 states that you aren't a resident of.

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That’s a good point I don’t think these guys get. Its about 4-6 years to get a deer rifle tag for the unit I live in. Not 5 buck tags 2 doe tags OTC every year.


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