Is the current high tag demand a bubble that will crash in the next 10 years?

Even in Virginia, public land on opening day for whitetail season was like a battlefield in the 1980s and 1990s. I used to count how many shots I heard and usually got above 40 before 8:00 am. The past three years, I have heard a total of four shots before 8:00 am.


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Even in Virginia, public land on opening day for whitetail season was like a battlefield in the 1980s and 1990s. I used to count how many shots I heard and usually got above 40 before 8:00 am. The past three years, I have heard a total of four shots before 8:00 am.


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Those guys AND their adult kids are all using crossbows during bow season now 👍
 
Wolf reintroduction kicked off in most western and Great Lakes states in the early to mid 1990's, when the people in charge of those game departments were in their 40's or 50's. I got a C in college calculus, but if my math works out, that wasn't Gen X or Millennials running that. Do you think the 30 year old DEI jerks just appeared out of thin air? Who educated them to think the way that they do?

I don't know what hunting camps you are spending your time in, but I don't think Baby Boomers trying to interest their grandkids in hunting is what took Stone Sheep hunt prices from $40k to $100k in 5 years. It's a verifiable fact that Baby Boomers are 1/3 of all hunters, and that generation is now retiring with a huge amount of wealth and spending that wealth on vacations and experiences. It's nothing to take personally, it just is what it is.
Wolf introduction began in the mid nineties, and how many boomers do you think were for it? Does this fathead look like a Boomer? Try looking at current events.

 
Those guys AND their adult kids are all using crossbows during bow season now

What’s the evidence for this? You have some statistics on crossbow hunters in Virginia?

The stats I have seen indicate that there were roughly 180,000 hunters in Virginia in 2021. A bit more than half of them report using a bow or crossbow.

That is down from 210,000 in 2008, when 30% of hunters reported using a bow or crossbow.

The most recent available stats show that 2.5% of the total deer reported were killed with crossbows in Virginia. And 14% of all deer were killed with a bow or crossbow.

I may live in a bit of a bubble, but my experience tracks with the statistics. The only people I know who use a crossbow are those hunting inside city limits. For example, the City of Lynchburg has open season for bow or crossbow from basically September through March (with a gap during firearm seasons).

I personally don’t know anyone who uses a crossbow on the public land which used to be overrun with rifle hunters. I still know tons of bow hunters. I am not denying that crossbow hunters are out there, but I sure ain’t seeing them. And there are thriving deer herds (as would be expected with fewer and fewer hunters).


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Wolf introduction began in the mid nineties, and how many boomers do you think were for it? Does this fathead look like a Boomer? Try looking at current events.

In the mid 90’s it would have been all boomers . Gen x was just 15 then so millennials were even younger. So to get the math to math boomers are the ones who got us the wolves . That guy you posted was still riding bikes when the wolf thing started or he has found the fountain of youth
 
In the mid 90’s it would have been all boomers . Gen x was just 15 then so millennials were even younger. So to get the math to math boomers are the ones who got us the wolves . That guy you posted was still riding bikes when the wolf thing started or he has found the fountain of youth
Gen X is 1965-80 so the youngest gen X would have been 15.

But I agree, it would have primarily been Boomers responsible for the wolf reintroduction.
 
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A bit off topic, but who decided to name generations in 14-15 year groups. kind of unrealistic. A generation is mother/child, started 26-27 years, realistic, now it is 14-15 years, really?
 
In the mid 90’s it would have been all boomers . Gen x was just 15 then so millennials were even younger. So to get the math to math boomers are the ones who got us the wolves . That guy you posted was still riding bikes when the wolf thing started or he has found the fountain of youth

So you are saying Boomers/hunters are still running the wolf scam? In 1995 I was having zero problem getting an elk tag. Now what is funny is you can't seem to grasp is that Boomers are not running the wolf invasion. Got it yet?
 
So you are saying Boomers/hunters are still running the wolf scam? In 1995 I was having zero problem getting an elk tag. Now what is funny is you can't seem to grasp is that Boomers are not running the wolf invasion. Got it yet?
I can say that I don’t have it. Too caught up trying to understand how you went from past tense to present tense and think everyone else are the stupid ones.
 
So you are saying Boomers/hunters are still running the wolf scam? In 1995 I was having zero problem getting an elk tag. Now what is funny is you can't seem to grasp is that Boomers are not running the wolf invasion. Got it yet?

You don’t understand how a wolf reintroduction plan started in the 1990s - by the people in charge then, who certainly weren’t folks under 30 in 1995 - might take a few years to start showing significant effects on ungulate populations? Sure, there are plenty of younger idiots who have continued the program, but the whole thing started back then. It would sure be nice if we had the political power to roll back that idiotic policy.


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I can say that I don’t have it. Too caught up trying to understand how you went from past tense to present tense and think everyone else are the stupid ones.
Interesting that you feel I brought up past tense? Someone else mentioned 1995. At that time wolves were a non issue. Now they chase the elk onto private property making them pretty much inaccessible. Present tense is the important tense. Each wolf eats 16-22 elk a year.


 
Interesting that you feel I brought up past tense? Someone else mentioned 1995. At that time wolves were a non issue. Now they chase the elk onto private property making them pretty much inaccessible. Present tense is the important tense. Each wolf eats 16-22 elk a year.


You asked how many boomers were for it. Were is past tense. I don’t feel like you brought past tense…you continued the past tense by using were.

In 1995 they were a nonissue because they were just getting dropped off in Idaho, Montana and Wyoming.

I agree that present tense is pretty important but you were responding back to people talking about what happened back in the mid 90s, jumping from past to present tense then acting like they were the stupid ones. Go back and actually read what they were saying.
 
You don’t understand how a wolf reintroduction plan started in the 1990s - by the people in charge then, who certainly weren’t folks under 30 in 1995 - might take a few years to start showing significant effects on ungulate populations? Sure, there are plenty of younger idiots who have continued the program, but the whole thing started back then. It would sure be nice if we had the political power to roll back that idiotic policy.


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You are missing the point. It is the younger generations that fought delisting and are fighting to keep as many wolves out there as possible. This is current tense. The main Biologist, a guy tasked with the reintroduction Doug Smith was a boomer and also a Clinton voter. You oddballs seem to think (ha ha) that Boomers are all alike. I can say that is more true of Gen Z than any other generation. Lazy and NOTHING is their fault.
 
You are missing the point. It is the younger generations that fought delisting and are fighting to keep as many wolves out there as possible. This is current tense. The main Biologist, a guy tasked with the reintroduction Doug Smith was a boomer and also a Clinton voter. You oddballs seem to think (ha ha) that Boomers are all alike. I can say that is more true of Gen Z than any other generation. Lazy and NOTHING is their fault.

I’m a GenXer. I’m also not fighting to keep wolves out there. But I agree with you that not everyone in a given generation is alike. Some just do a better job of conforming to the stereotypes.


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“Keep on keepin’ on…”
 
You asked how many boomers were for it. Were is past tense. I don’t feel like you brought past tense…you did bring up past tense.
This is where "past tense" started.

Wolf reintroduction kicked off in most western and Great Lakes states in the early to mid 1990's, when the people in charge of those game departments were in their 40's or 50's. I got a C in college calculus, but if my math works out, that wasn't Gen X or Millennials running that. Do you think the 30 year old DEI jerks just appeared out of thin air? Who educated them to think the way that they do?

I don't know what hunting camps you are spending your time in, but I don't think Baby Boomers trying to interest their grandkids in hunting is what took Stone Sheep hunt prices from $40k to $100k in 5 years. It's a verifiable fact that Baby Boomers are 1/3 of all hunters, and that generation is now retiring with a huge amount of wealth and spending that wealth on vacations and experiences. It's nothing to take personally, it just is what it is.
 
Gen X is 1965-80 so the youngest gen X would have been 15.

But I agree, it would have primarily been Boomers responsible for the wolf reintroduction.
Yep that’s me but I was 16.

I’m glad I’m not the only one that doesn’t get this guys usage of past tense
 
My family started hunting out of state in the middle 1950’s. We are still making the pilgrimage every year, same place on national forest. Everyone in camp talks about how there’s less hunters than when they started going, from my Grandfather who started the tradition, to my dad and his brother and friends who started going in the 70’s, I even remember more camps when I started going in 2001.
The forest service road we camp on used to have a camp in every pullout and some of them were big camps with 8-10 guys when I was a kid. Now there’s usually 3-4 camps with no more than 2-3 guys each on average.

Dad says the opener used to sound like a gun battle and they’d see a dozen or more guys out walking throughout the day. I remember truckloads of Texans and Californians cruising the roads, the Cali guys would always ask if I’d seen any elk close to the roads.
In the 80’s they talk about seeing 200 does in a day and few or no bucks, a forkie was in mortal danger. Back in the 50’s and 60’s they’d kill 15-20 bucks in our camp when the limit was 3.

Now the roads I remember seeing the guys sneaking down in pickups and jeeps are closed. Deer haven’t been OtC in a long time and take 3 points to draw now, but you can kill a nice representative 3 or 4 point buck or at least have an opportunity if you put a little effort in. And we generally kill elk most years, usually back in the nasty places but it’s always been that way. And most guys still don’t like to hike way back off the road.

I talk to guys around home who used to go back 20-30 years ago and they all say they miss it but between fuel and tags and the cost of living they can’t make the trip like they used to. Younger guys who want to go but either won’t on their own or say they can’t afford it. When my dad worked civil service on our local military base when I was little there were several groups of a dozen or more guys who would take vacation time together and go west to make a big camp and hunt. I know there were two camps that took all the available leave for 2nd season and another for 3rd, none of them go anymore.

All that to say that I suppose things have never stopped changing and they probably won’t. We sure miss 1 or 0 point deer tags and we’re thankful for OTC bull tags as long as they last. If it weren’t for the internet and available data I don’t think that we’d think there was more demand. And no I won’t say where our spot is at. 😉
The numbers bear your comment out.
 
This is where "past tense" started.

Wolf reintroduction kicked off in most western and Great Lakes states in the early to mid 1990's, when the people in charge of those game departments were in their 40's or 50's. I got a C in college calculus, but if my math works out, that wasn't Gen X or Millennials running that. Do you think the 30 year old DEI jerks just appeared out of thin air? Who educated them to think the way that they do?

I don't know what hunting camps you are spending your time in, but I don't think Baby Boomers trying to interest their grandkids in hunting is what took Stone Sheep hunt prices from $40k to $100k in 5 years. It's a verifiable fact that Baby Boomers are 1/3 of all hunters, and that generation is now retiring with a huge amount of wealth and spending that wealth on vacations and experiences. It's nothing to take personally, it just is what it is.
That post was talking about what happened back in the nineties. You quoted it and asked how many boomers were for it. That would be a continuation of past tense. Then Kurt responded, also talking about the 90s. You responded back to him and jumped to present.

To which I will be done arguing with you on this. If you can’t understand that you jumped from past to present tense, I don’t think there is much I can do that will help you see it.
 
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