How to end NR Wyoming wilderness ban?

tdhanses

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I just spent two weeks at my place in Wyo, and Im catching up on Rokslide threads and it took me a pot of coffee to read thru this thread... entertaining for sure.

Here's what I do know:

In Colorado, there are Moose Units are Resident Only.

NonRes can hunt deer, antelope, elk, small game, fish, hike and anything else in these units, just not hunt moose.

In these moose units there are BLM lands, State Lands, Federal Lands and even..... Wilderness Areas.

I have never heard of one complaint about this.
Not one. Ever.
So nonresidents can get a Moose tag but not hunt the area while residents with the same tag can?

Guess I don’t see how residents being the only tag holders as the same as having a valid tag but having to have a babysitter, probably why no one complains.
 

tdhanses

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Again...
Isnt this thread about not allowing NonRes in to certain areas?
Yes, certain areas they have a valid tag for, they just have to find or pay a babysitter to hunt 100% of the area the valid tag covers, area the federal government owns.
 

tdhanses

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I don't like the rule, but it doesn't bother me much. I would prefer Wyoming to be honest about it and admit that it is not a public safety issue. It is outfitter welfare and NR hunter crowding control. A reciprocity rule would be a good symbolic form of protest/retaliation. But I suspect that it would impact very few Wyomingites.

It would be no different than another state designating certain units as Resident Only, whether it contains wilderness or not. Now there's an idea.
One could argue it creates crowding more in non wilderness areas.
 

cnelk

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So nonresidents can get a Moose tag but not hunt the area while residents with the same tag can?

Guess I don’t see how residents being the only tag holders as the same as having a valid tag but having to have a babysitter, probably why no one complains.
NonRes can’t even apply for a couple of the moose areas.
 

tdhanses

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NonRes can’t even apply for a couple of the moose areas.
Yeah and that makes perfect sense, really WY should just redraw the lines and make the wilderness draw units for resident only, then this wouldn’t be an issue, other then for outfitters.

In CO same goes for sheep, but if you draw a sheep tag you get to hunt the entire unit open to the public.
 

wapitibob

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😂😂😂 tell me you don’t spend any time archery hunting Wyoming without telling me you don’t spend any time archery hunting Wyoming.

I hunt there almost every year. After talking to a crossbow hunter I realized he's nothing more than another guy with an archery tag. The ones upset that some other guy is trudging thru the WY woods with a crossbow is nothing but a bias.

Still waiting to see these issues posted up, they've been legal for over 40 years.
 
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wytx

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Crossbows should be for cripples and the infirm. That is something we as residents have to work on.
No issues with x bows, they have been around longer than compound bows.
I think I have seen one in the field.
Residents should have no issues with them.
I would push to keep them included, I shoot a longbow by the way.
 
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No issues with x bows, they have been around longer than compound bows.
I think I have seen one in the field.
Residents should have no issues with them.
I would push to keep them included, I shoot a longbow by the way.
That's cool. Definitely room for more than one opinion.
 

FAAFO

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No issues with x bows, they have been around longer than compound bows.
I think I have seen one in the field.
Residents should have no issues with them.
I would push to keep them included, I shoot a longbow by the way.
Spend some time in western WY especially for deer between sept 1 and the 14th. The new crossbows have guys taking 150* yard shots. You want to hunt with a crossrifle do it during the rifle season. The biggest buck killed in WW this year had 3 dudes from UT chasing him with $2500 crossbows with 12 power scopes on them. The technology has changed enough with cross rifles to warrant change. It’s why many states have modified muzzleloader requirements etc. Who gives a flying f*** it’s been that way for 40 years? WY is slow to change anything. Doesn’t mean it should stay that way.

How do you speak for all the residents? Residents shouldn’t have an issue with them? How do you figure?
 

wytx

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Never said I speak for all residents just the ones I know that don't care about x bows.
Heck compounds are the same, just make archery season trad bows only, solves that problem.
 

mntnguide

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Spend some time in western WY especially for deer between sept 1 and the 14th. The new crossbows have guys taking 150* yard shots. You want to hunt with a crossrifle do it during the rifle season. The biggest buck killed in WW this year had 3 dudes from UT chasing him with $2500 crossbows with 12 power scopes on them. The technology has changed enough with cross rifles to warrant change. It’s why many states have modified muzzleloader requirements etc. Who gives a flying f*** it’s been that way for 40 years? WY is slow to change anything. Doesn’t mean it should stay that way.

How do you speak for all the residents? Residents shouldn’t have an issue with them? How do you figure?
Exactly...And the guy that got him, listed his xbow immediately after season for sale. Same with Commisioner tags in many big bull areas, lots of outfitters are using a crossbow to go after the bigger bulls in september so they can shoot 100+ yards. Does it really effect my hunting, no, but do i think it should be changed, yes. No reason for able bodied people to be using a Xbow during archery season. . . And dont forget the Thermal stuff the Utards are also using to find said bucks every year...thats a whole other issue going on behind the scenes thats very hard for wardens to chase down, cause its being done at night from high points. These guys basically buy points to get a tag each year, and then will do whatever at all costs to kill the biggest buck. Fair chase is long gone
 

CrescentB

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I've always wandered, how is this enforced in WY?
Game wardens and USFS rangers will float the wilderness areas to enforce the law. Like it or not, and for being big country for them to cover, they do a great job at enforcing it.
 

CrescentB

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From a legal perspective, the way I see it, the state does not have authority to regulate federal lands. If the state issues a nonresident a tag, the state cannot dictate he/she hunt any federal land area with a guide. But, as I'm sure we are all aware, many states do what they want, despite their legal limitations. If they enforce this, sooner or later someone will fight it, and very likely win.
What changes this dynamic is that state does own (manage) the wildlife, so it is the States right to legislate and enforce those laws within its borders.
 

CrescentB

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I would think there could be tax ramifications that could be levied against the state for access banning. Force the outfits to make up the difference.....not that it matters those are bottomless pockets.
I don't care for much of the outfitter industry, but I saw this with deep experience having both guided for wilderness camps and had family who were in the business as owners,,,the pockets for these organizations are not deep. In most cases for Wyoming outfitters operating on public lands, and certainly for outfitters operating in wilderness areas, after you pay taxes, payroll, contingent / non contingent expenses, overhead, livestock feed, etc,,,you then pay the department of the interior for using the land for commercial activities. NOBODY is banning access. You are allowed to be there from JAN - DEC at your choosing. You just cannot posses a hunting license and actively be engaged in the activity of hunting for your own gain for any species in the duration of your time spent inside a USFS wilderness zone.
 

CrescentB

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What's your threshold for quite heavily? They only write about 1 ticket a year and the vast majority are settled for $150.
I'll give an example without naming names or areas. a simple internet search can do the rest. 2023 elk season a resident was "accompanying" a NR hunter in a wilderness unit. He was discovered by the Game and Fish and charged with unlawful hunting without a permitted guide. The resident member who possessed a resident elk license at the is going to trial in February for guiding a non resident for pay (coyoting as we call it), while the hunter was fined north of $12K and in violation of the lacy act. Id say that's a lot worse than $150 bucks and damn sure well deserved.
 
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I'll give an example without naming names or areas. a simple internet search can do the rest. 2023 elk season a resident was "accompanying" a NR hunter in a wilderness unit. He was discovered by the Game and Fish and charged with unlawful hunting without a permitted guide. The resident member who possessed a resident elk license at the is going to trial in February for guiding a non resident for pay (coyoting as we call it), while the hunter was fined north of $12K and in violation of the lacy act. Id say that's a lot worse than $150 bucks and damn sure well deserved.

That sounds like illegal guiding to me.

The historical record stands for itself though. WY doesn't enforce this rule with much vigor at all.
 
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