How to end NR Wyoming wilderness ban?

[Poser]

That pesky SCOTUS ruling and law, wonder when it all will change ??

Its not a SCOTUS ruling. There is no supreme court ruling and it hasn't even been tested in federal court. it is a WY state Supreme Court ruling.

 

[Live_weighT34]

I just don’t know why people need to get their panties in a wad if they don’t like the law in a certain state, don’t hunt that state!
NR hunting is a free market economy and there’s plenty of options/opportunities out there. Maybe stay out of WYO so this nonresident Utard can get a tag quicker.
Last time I hunted Wyoming I saw 3:1 more elk and deer scouting outside of wilderness areas on public than I did in them.

 

[steelheadmike]

I just spent two weeks at my place in Wyo, and Im catching up on Rokslide threads and it took me a pot of coffee to read thru this thread... entertaining for sure.

Here's what I do know:

In Colorado, there are Moose Units are Resident Only.

NonRes can hunt deer, antelope, elk, small game, fish, hike and anything else in these units, just not hunt moose.

In these moose units there are BLM lands, State Lands, Federal Lands and even..... Wilderness Areas.

I have never heard of one complaint about this.
Not one. Ever.

I see the similarities but it's not quite an apples to apples comparison.

The state has a right to manage game animals and can give tags to whomever they please. The state can determine the boundaries for which said tag is good for. Both WY and CO follow these doctrines.

The difference is that in WY, the tag is good for a given species in a given area. But, that area happens to have a FEDERAL designated line running through it. An unguided person may not cross that line but a guided person is allowed to. The tag/species/boundary was issued with no reference to this boundary line. IMO, this a pretty hard distinction. If Wyoming issued the NR tag that said "outside of Wilderness area", it would be a different story.

Idaho (and other states) have tags that reference specific federal boundaries but they mostly have to do with management activities determined by the state.

 

[wapitibob]

It is not uncommon for states to have resident only tags for OIL species with very low population densities. It’s a matter of what percent of tags go to res vs non-res when only a few tags are issued. Maybe this is the case in CO too?

Either way I see no comparison between res only moose hunts vs not allowing non res to hunt deer and elk herds in wilderness areas in WY

It's been pointed out numerous times; the state game dept can discriminate against a nr in any manner they choose. They can and do have tags valid off national forest, or tags valid on private land; they can do whatever they want.

 

[wytx]

Its not a SCOTUS ruling. There is no supreme court ruling and it hasn't even been tested in federal court. it is a WY state Supreme Court ruling.

I believe SCOTUS addressed this in the 1970s and it was appealed and taken to the 9 th or 10th Circuit years later and upheld in part. Baldwin v. Fish and Game Comm. of Montana , 436 U.S. 371 in 1978
And yes we have a law on the books that grants state right to discriminate against NR hunters: Public Law Number 109-13, section 6036.1'

 

[Poser]

I believe SCOTUS addressed this in the 1970s and it was appealed and taken to the 9 th or 10th Circuit years later and upheld in part. Baldwin v. Fish and Game Comm. of Montana , 436 U.S. 371 in 1978
And yes we have a law on the books that grants state right to discriminate against NR hunters: Public Law Number 109-13, section 6036.1'

As far as I understand, that case was related to the cost of NR licenses vs resident with the following conclusions:

Access by nonresidents to recreational big game hunting in Montana does not fall within the category of rights protected by the Privileges and Immunities Clause. Only with respect to those "privileges" and "immunities" bearing upon the vitality of the Nation as a single entity must a State treat all citizens, resident and nonresident, equally, and here equality in access to Montana elk is not basic to the maintenance or wellbeing of the Union. Pp. 436 U. S. 378-388.

2. The statutory scheme is an economic means not unreasonably related to the preservation of a finite resource, elk, and a substantial regulatory interest of that State, and hence does not violate the Equal Protection Clause. In view of the fact that residents contribute to the costs of maintaining the elk hunting program, the great increase in nonresident hunters in recent years, the limit in the elk supply, and the difficulties in supervising hunting practices, it cannot be said that either the license fee differentials or the required combination license for nonresidents is irrational.

I think what is important to note is that this seems to pertain directly to fee differentials. It might could set precedent for federals lands, but I'm not sure if it is broad enough in its ruling to set a definitive application there.

 

[P Carter]

If anyone is truly serious on this, PM me. There's a route to challenge this that doesn't involve getting a ticket, and (I think, at least, but would have to really run it down) a good argument to be made that it's unconstitutional. It would take some money, but perhaps not as much as one might think.

 

[wyosam]

I don't doubt you but this is the first time I remember hearing someone got ticketed.

I lived in and hunted Wyoming for about 30 years. Spent lots of time in wilderness. Had a total of zero encounters with Game and Fish in a place where this would even come up. I suppose out of state plates at a trailhead that goes straight into wilderness, without access to non-wilderness available from same trailhead might get attention. Doubt it’s much attention though, wardens are plenty busy with other stuff. I was the “resident guide” for a few friends (some just non-residents I met while hunting) over the years, and to be honest half the time I forgot to get the paper to make it legal anyway. It’s a law meant to convince non-residents to hire a guide, and nothing else. Doubt it has ever even been talked about as something to actually enforce. Anyone who got a ticket for it probably did something else to get the warden’s attention. Especially with social media, finding a local to join on a hunt just isn’t that hard. Draw the tag, come up with a plan for a cool hunt and start reaching out.

 

[Dave0317]

If anyone is truly serious on this, PM me. There's a route to challenge this that doesn't involve getting a ticket, and (I think, at least, but would have to really run it down) a good argument to be made that it's unconstitutional. It would take some money, but perhaps not as much as one might think.

Is there any of the conservation groups you think would be on our side in this?

I would think some of them are pretty tied in with outfitters that would be opposed to it.

BHA seems to be pretty friendly to the DIY hunter mindset. Maybe they would put some skin in the game considering
1. Most of their members probably hunt elk and don’t live in Wyoming.
2. That’s a huge public land resource that is off limits to the majority of Americans unless they pay extra to a “guide” that may or may not make them any safer or more likely to harvest an animal.

 

[P Carter]

Is there any of the conservation groups you think would be on our side in this?

I would think some of them are pretty tied in with outfitters that would be opposed to it.

BHA seems to be pretty friendly to the DIY hunter mindset. Maybe they would put some skin in the game considering
1. Most of their members probably hunt elk and don’t live in Wyoming.
2. That’s a huge public land resource that is off limits to the majority of Americans unless they pay extra to a “guide” that may or may not make them any safer or more likely to harvest an animal.

Conceptually, if an organization spends money to increase game numbers/increase hunting opportunity on behalf of a nationwide membership, in (or affecting) WY wilderness areas, yet a portion of the organization's membership is prevented by law from enjoying those opportunities, that organization would rightly have a beef with the restriction.

 

[wytx]

You don't have to pay a guide to hunt the wilderness, in fact it is illegal to pay a resident guide that is not a licensed outfitter. Pay to play doesn't apply here, yet.

 

[Backyard]

I just spent two weeks at my place in Wyo, and Im catching up on Rokslide threads and it took me a pot of coffee to read thru this thread... entertaining for sure.

Here's what I do know:

In Colorado, there are Moose Units are Resident Only.

NonRes can hunt deer, antelope, elk, small game, fish, hike and anything else in these units, just not hunt moose.

In these moose units there are BLM lands, State Lands, Federal Lands and even..... Wilderness Areas.

I have never heard of one complaint about this.
Not one. Ever.

And how many NR moose hunters are there hunting Co again?


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[cnelk]

And how many NR moose hunters are there hunting Co again?


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Again...
Isnt this thread about not allowing NonRes in to certain areas?

 

[BuckSmasher]

I lived in and hunted Wyoming for about 30 years. Spent lots of time in wilderness. Had a total of zero encounters with Game and Fish in a place where this would even come up. I suppose out of state plates at a trailhead that goes straight into wilderness, without access to non-wilderness available from same trailhead might get attention. Doubt it’s much attention though, wardens are plenty busy with other stuff. I was the “resident guide” for a few friends (some just non-residents I met while hunting) over the years, and to be honest half the time I forgot to get the paper to make it legal anyway. It’s a law meant to convince non-residents to hire a guide, and nothing else. Doubt it has ever even been talked about as something to actually enforce. Anyone who got a ticket for it probably did something else to get the warden’s attention. Especially with social media, finding a local to join on a hunt just isn’t that hard. Draw the tag, come up with a plan for a cool hunt and start reaching out.

I want to hunt the thorofare with my own stock when I can draw a general tag in 3-30 years. Is there a hunting partner website for lonely WY residents? Something like Farmers Only but for hunting partners only?

41 yom seeks fun loving WY resident hunter. Must have positive attitude, be physically fit and a preferably a Christian. In any case can't have a drinking or substance abuse problem and not vulgar or prone to anger. Must be ok with horses. Being an excellent elk caller is a must. Open to either just a one time hunt, or maybe forming longtime huntingship. Must have your own basic gear. Sense of humor, especially in difficult or uncomfortable circumstances is a big plus.

 

[MTtrout]

Isnt this thread about not allowing NonRes in to certain areas?

Feel free to reread the title for your answer (especially the wilderness part)

Again, I see no comparison between a state limiting the very few tags (insert your CO moose example) issued to res only versus a state not allowing non res from hunting big game ‘IN ALL’ wilderness areas without a guide.

I would like to know if non res hunters can hunt other big game in the moose area you brought up in CO?

Seems like an out of stater of WY can swing a shotgun on birds in wilderness areas but needs payed company if they want to shoot a hoofed animal.

 

[SDHNTR]

It’s their state, they get to make the rules pertaining to wildlife. Don’t like it? Hunt somewhere else.

 

[Mojave]

I want to hunt the thorofare with my own stock when I can draw a general tag in 3-30 years. Is there a hunting partner website for lonely WY residents? Something like Farmers Only but for hunting partners only?

41 yom seeks fun loving WY resident hunter. Must have positive attitude, be physically fit and a preferably a Christian. In any case can't have a drinking or substance abuse problem and not vulgar or prone to anger. Must be ok with horses. Being an excellent elk caller is a must. Open to either just a one time hunt, or maybe forming longtime huntingship. Must have your own basic gear. Sense of humor, especially in difficult or uncomfortable circumstances is a big plus.

I am out, I am vulgar and I like a beer in camp.

 

[MTtrout]

It’s their state, they get to make the rules pertaining to wildlife. Don’t like it? Hunt somewhere else.

Sure, but doesn’t a small part of you want to see the WY wildlife commission members release their warm motherly arms off the shoulders of wilderness outfitters just a little bit?

 

[SDHNTR]

Sure, but doesn’t a small part of you want to see the WY wildlife commission members release their warm motherly arms off the shoulders of wilderness outfitters just a little bit?

Nope. And this is coming from a NR who just hunted a wilderness in WY and paid through the nose to do it.

 

[Dos Perros]

I want to hunt the thorofare with my own stock when I can draw a general tag in 3-30 years. Is there a hunting partner website for lonely WY residents? Something like Farmers Only but for hunting partners only?

41 yom seeks fun loving WY resident hunter. Must have positive attitude, be physically fit and a preferably a Christian. In any case can't have a drinking or substance abuse problem and not vulgar or prone to anger. Must be ok with horses. Being an excellent elk caller is a must. Open to either just a one time hunt, or maybe forming longtime huntingship. Must have your own basic gear. Sense of humor, especially in difficult or uncomfortable circumstances is a big plus.

Lol you don't have to be an excellent elk caller in Wyoming. Get you a Hyper Lip Single and stack'em up.