How to end NR Wyoming wilderness ban?

[WhatToHunt]

A meme is a person that believes the world revolves around them. It's properly pronounced "me, me".

When memes were new, or at last new to me, I legit didn't know how to pronounce it and said it like "me-me". And as a fan of the hit 90s sitcom The Drew Carey Show, naturally what then came to mind was...



Now carry on with the wilderness stuff.

 

[ZackBarnes]

Thanks

 

[cnelk]

I just spent two weeks at my place in Wyo, and Im catching up on Rokslide threads and it took me a pot of coffee to read thru this thread... entertaining for sure.

Here's what I do know:

In Colorado, there are Moose Units are Resident Only.

NonRes can hunt deer, antelope, elk, small game, fish, hike and anything else in these units, just not hunt moose.

In these moose units there are BLM lands, State Lands, Federal Lands and even..... Wilderness Areas.

I have never heard of one complaint about this.
Not one. Ever.

 

[MuleyFever]

Utah has some hunts that are resident only as well.

 

[ThorM465]

I just spent two weeks at my place in Wyo, and Im catching up on Rokslide threads and it took me a pot of coffee to read thru this thread... entertaining for sure.

Here's what I do know:

In Colorado, there are Moose Units are Resident Only.

NonRes can hunt deer, antelope, elk, small game, fish, hike and anything else in these units, just not hunt moose.

In these moose units there are BLM lands, State Lands, Federal Lands and even..... Wilderness Areas.

I have never heard of one complaint about this.
Not one. Ever.

Well here's your first complaint. State's have no right to discriminate against different Americans on federal lands. In fairness I'd accept this discrimination to some degree. However, these states have taken it to the extreme in some cases and as such has made it abundantly apparent that their is a need for nonresident representation. What we have now is essentially taxation without representation.

 

[wytx]

Another way to get read of the NR wilderness rule would be for NR help us Residents get 95/5/5 tag split witch means 95 percent of all big game tags go to Residents 5 percent go to NR and 5 percent to Guides and Outfitters...

No, no no. No tags to outfitters.

 

[MTtrout]

In Colorado, there are Moose Units are Resident Only.

I have never heard of one complaint about this.
Not one. Ever.

It is not uncommon for states to have resident only tags for OIL species with very low population densities. It’s a matter of what percent of tags go to res vs non-res when only a few tags are issued. Maybe this is the case in CO too?

Either way I see no comparison between res only moose hunts vs not allowing non res to hunt deer and elk herds in wilderness areas in WY

 

[wytx]

That pesky SCOTUS ruling and law, wonder when it all will change ??

 

[cnelk]

Either way I see no comparison between res only moose hunts vs not allowing non res to hunt deer and elk herds in wilderness areas in WY

Isnt this thread about not allowing NonRes in to certain areas?

 

[Sccritterkiller]

Another way to get read of the NR wilderness rule would be for NR help us Residents get 95/5/5 tag split witch means 95 percent of all big game tags go to Residents 5 percent go to NR and 5 percent to Guides and Outfitters...

Residents wouldn't vote for tag increase to cover the tag cost loat in 95/5/5 split..thats why it remains the way it is...70% of F&G budget come from NR tag sales..so R gen elk tag would have to go at least 5x to bring in the same amount rev., maybe more.

 

[Dos Perros]

I just spent two weeks at my place in Wyo, and Im catching up on Rokslide threads and it took me a pot of coffee to read thru this thread... entertaining for sure.

Here's what I do know:

In Colorado, there are Moose Units are Resident Only.

NonRes can hunt deer, antelope, elk, small game, fish, hike and anything else in these units, just not hunt moose.

In these moose units there are BLM lands, State Lands, Federal Lands and even..... Wilderness Areas.

I have never heard of one complaint about this.
Not one. Ever.

Are you equating the two situations?

 

[wyogoat]

Wyoming res need to work on their meme game.

Whoa. Too far. You didn’t read the entire thread. There were some zingers in there.

 

[Poser]

That pesky SCOTUS ruling and law, wonder when it all will change ??

Its not a SCOTUS ruling. There is no supreme court ruling and it hasn't even been tested in federal court. it is a WY state Supreme Court ruling.

 

[Live_weighT34]

I just don’t know why people need to get their panties in a wad if they don’t like the law in a certain state, don’t hunt that state!
NR hunting is a free market economy and there’s plenty of options/opportunities out there. Maybe stay out of WYO so this nonresident Utard can get a tag quicker.
Last time I hunted Wyoming I saw 3:1 more elk and deer scouting outside of wilderness areas on public than I did in them.

 

[steelheadmike]

I just spent two weeks at my place in Wyo, and Im catching up on Rokslide threads and it took me a pot of coffee to read thru this thread... entertaining for sure.

Here's what I do know:

In Colorado, there are Moose Units are Resident Only.

NonRes can hunt deer, antelope, elk, small game, fish, hike and anything else in these units, just not hunt moose.

In these moose units there are BLM lands, State Lands, Federal Lands and even..... Wilderness Areas.

I have never heard of one complaint about this.
Not one. Ever.

I see the similarities but it's not quite an apples to apples comparison.

The state has a right to manage game animals and can give tags to whomever they please. The state can determine the boundaries for which said tag is good for. Both WY and CO follow these doctrines.

The difference is that in WY, the tag is good for a given species in a given area. But, that area happens to have a FEDERAL designated line running through it. An unguided person may not cross that line but a guided person is allowed to. The tag/species/boundary was issued with no reference to this boundary line. IMO, this a pretty hard distinction. If Wyoming issued the NR tag that said "outside of Wilderness area", it would be a different story.

Idaho (and other states) have tags that reference specific federal boundaries but they mostly have to do with management activities determined by the state.

 

[wapitibob]

It is not uncommon for states to have resident only tags for OIL species with very low population densities. It’s a matter of what percent of tags go to res vs non-res when only a few tags are issued. Maybe this is the case in CO too?

Either way I see no comparison between res only moose hunts vs not allowing non res to hunt deer and elk herds in wilderness areas in WY

It's been pointed out numerous times; the state game dept can discriminate against a nr in any manner they choose. They can and do have tags valid off national forest, or tags valid on private land; they can do whatever they want.

 

[wytx]

Its not a SCOTUS ruling. There is no supreme court ruling and it hasn't even been tested in federal court. it is a WY state Supreme Court ruling.

I believe SCOTUS addressed this in the 1970s and it was appealed and taken to the 9 th or 10th Circuit years later and upheld in part. Baldwin v. Fish and Game Comm. of Montana , 436 U.S. 371 in 1978
And yes we have a law on the books that grants state right to discriminate against NR hunters: Public Law Number 109-13, section 6036.1'

 

[Poser]

I believe SCOTUS addressed this in the 1970s and it was appealed and taken to the 9 th or 10th Circuit years later and upheld in part. Baldwin v. Fish and Game Comm. of Montana , 436 U.S. 371 in 1978
And yes we have a law on the books that grants state right to discriminate against NR hunters: Public Law Number 109-13, section 6036.1'

As far as I understand, that case was related to the cost of NR licenses vs resident with the following conclusions:

Access by nonresidents to recreational big game hunting in Montana does not fall within the category of rights protected by the Privileges and Immunities Clause. Only with respect to those "privileges" and "immunities" bearing upon the vitality of the Nation as a single entity must a State treat all citizens, resident and nonresident, equally, and here equality in access to Montana elk is not basic to the maintenance or wellbeing of the Union. Pp. 436 U. S. 378-388.

2. The statutory scheme is an economic means not unreasonably related to the preservation of a finite resource, elk, and a substantial regulatory interest of that State, and hence does not violate the Equal Protection Clause. In view of the fact that residents contribute to the costs of maintaining the elk hunting program, the great increase in nonresident hunters in recent years, the limit in the elk supply, and the difficulties in supervising hunting practices, it cannot be said that either the license fee differentials or the required combination license for nonresidents is irrational.

I think what is important to note is that this seems to pertain directly to fee differentials. It might could set precedent for federals lands, but I'm not sure if it is broad enough in its ruling to set a definitive application there.

 

[P Carter]

If anyone is truly serious on this, PM me. There's a route to challenge this that doesn't involve getting a ticket, and (I think, at least, but would have to really run it down) a good argument to be made that it's unconstitutional. It would take some money, but perhaps not as much as one might think.

 

[wyosam]

I don't doubt you but this is the first time I remember hearing someone got ticketed.

I lived in and hunted Wyoming for about 30 years. Spent lots of time in wilderness. Had a total of zero encounters with Game and Fish in a place where this would even come up. I suppose out of state plates at a trailhead that goes straight into wilderness, without access to non-wilderness available from same trailhead might get attention. Doubt it’s much attention though, wardens are plenty busy with other stuff. I was the “resident guide” for a few friends (some just non-residents I met while hunting) over the years, and to be honest half the time I forgot to get the paper to make it legal anyway. It’s a law meant to convince non-residents to hire a guide, and nothing else. Doubt it has ever even been talked about as something to actually enforce. Anyone who got a ticket for it probably did something else to get the warden’s attention. Especially with social media, finding a local to join on a hunt just isn’t that hard. Draw the tag, come up with a plan for a cool hunt and start reaching out.