Help me decide on my first ar15

[Joshuajosh]

I’m looking into getting into an ar platform rifle. I’ve been looking at Lmt and lwrc. I am curious if anyone here has experience with these brands and if they are comparable. I have heard Lmt has had qc issues but I have also heard they are very proven high quality rifles…. Lwrc seems to be the cheaper of the two but they still look like they are very well made… let me know your opinions!
-price limit $2500
-16” barrel
-mlok
-DI
-mono upper

 

[sconnieVLP]

What are you trying to use it for? Any reason why you're set on the mono upper?

 

[Formidilosus]

I’m looking into getting into an ar platform rifle. I’ve been looking at Lmt and lwrc. I am curious if anyone here has experience with these brands and if they are comparable. I have heard Lmt has had qc issues but I have also heard they are very proven high quality rifles…. Lwrc seems to be the cheaper of the two but they still look like they are very well made… let me know your opinions!
-price limit $2500
-16” barrel
-mlok
-DI
-mono upper

Extensive experience and use on both brands. Depending on use, LMT monos may the “best” AR platforms made. In either case, LMT over the LWRC.

16” mid gas LMT’s generally shoot quite well, if not a bit over gassed.

 

[Mike Islander]

Extensive experience and use on both brands. Depending on use, LMT monos may the “best” AR platforms made. In either case, LMT over the LWRC.

16” mid gas LMT’s generally shoot quite well, if not a bit over gassed.

I'm on my second barrel (shot many thousand rounds of Tula in my first barrel) on my LWRC M6A2 Stretch. Over 12,000 rounds without a malfunction. AR-accurate. What issues have you seen or what features put the LMT over the LWRC?

 

[Joshuajosh]

What are you trying to use it for? Any reason why you're set on the mono upper?

General shooting, and honestly no specific reason other than it being one piece over 2… I like the ease of changing out barrels with the lmt

 

[Joshuajosh]

Extensive experience and use on both brands. Depending on use, LMT monos may the “best” AR platforms made. In either case, LMT over the LWRC.

16” mid gas LMT’s generally shoot quite well, if not a bit over gassed.

The only model Lmt 16” I can find had the 9.5 upper… do you find that length limiting or does it negatively effect anything? Figure it may be a little short but then again the nz reference rifle and Estonian rifle both have the same length (I think)

 

[Formidilosus]

I'm on my second barrel (shot many thousand rounds of Tula in my first barrel) on my LWRC M6A2 Stretch. Over 12,000 rounds without a malfunction. AR-accurate. What issues have you seen or what features put the LMT over the LWRC?

View attachment 505317

Overall in large sample sizes, LWRC has more variation in QC/small issues, though nothing that makes them not a viable choice.

What LMT mono uppers do is:

- Durability. Breaking or bending a rail with an MRP/MLC would be quite the show.

- Rail deflection under any load is the least on the market. Mainly matters with IR lasers and iron sight use; however, does effect bipod loading and torque applied back to barrel nut.

- Tying in with rail deflection, bolt life/bolt wear especially in the lugs, is much longer in hard use than any conventional upper. One can expect bolt lug breakage between 6,000-15,000 rounds on average with true Milspec bolts and any conventional carbine length gas upper; with LMT’s I haven’t seen a single bolt lug failure with dozens of uppers with more than 30k rounds each on them- mostly suppressed.

- Quick change barrels

- In general they tend to show much less POI shift between different ammo types and/or different lot numbers.



As I said in the first post- depending on use, LMT’s may be the “best” AR upper platform on the market. May be. Other uppers and designs can be, and are good or very good. However, there is no “better” 16” upper than an LMT MLR with appropriate barrel.

 

[Formidilosus]

The only model Lmt 16” I can find had the 9.5 upper… do you find that length limiting or does it negatively effect anything? Figure it may be a little short but then again the nz reference rifle and Estonian rifle both have the same length (I think)

I would not personally do so with a short version, though I have in the past and they do work. A better fit is to wait for a rifle length upper to be available if you are going with a 16” barrel. Having said that, I would rather a LMT carbine upper, than anyone else best upper for general use.

 

[Joshuajosh]

Overall in large sample sizes, LWRC has more variation in QC/small issues, though nothing that makes them not a viable choice.

What LMT mono uppers do is:

- Durability. Breaking or bending a rail with an MRP/MLC would be quite the show.

- Rail deflection under any load is the least on the market. Mainly matters with IR lasers and iron sight use; however, does effect bipod loading and torque applied back to barrel nut.

- Tying in with rail deflection, bolt life/bolt wear especially in the lugs, is much longer in hard use than any conventional upper. One can expect bolt lug breakage between 6,000-15,000 rounds on average with true Milspec bolts and any conventional carbine length gas upper; with LMT’s I haven’t seen a single bolt lug failure with dozens of uppers with more than 30k rounds each on them- mostly suppressed.

- Quick change barrels

- In general they tend to show much less POI shift between different ammo types and/or different lot numbers.



As I said in the first post- depending on use, LMT’s may be the “best” AR upper platform on the market. May be. Other uppers and designs can be, and are good or very good. However, there is no “better” 16” upper than an LMT MLR with appropriate barrel.

Is there a specific reason Lmt went with such a short upper with a 16” barrel? I can’t see how it would be productive other than saving some weight

 

[Joshuajosh]

I would not personally do so with a short version, though I have in the past and they do work. A better fit is to wait for a rifle length upper to be available if you are going with a 16” barrel. Having said that, I would rather a LMT carbine upper, than anyone else best upper for general use.

I live in Maryland and am not 21, so I’m limited to using a 16” barrel currently, in the future I will go shorter than that but for now I have to just go with the 16

 

[Formidilosus]

Is there a specific reason Lmt went with such a short upper with a 16” barrel? I can’t see how it would be productive other than saving some weight

They made regular length carbine upper before longer handguards were a thing. In 2009/10 I was the only person in common use with a 14.5” barrel and a 13” hand guard. That wasn’t normal.

 

[bnsafe]

I know nothing about lmt, may be the best thing ever. However, I have a lwrc and love it. Its never failed to fire and I have complete confidence in it should I ever need it for its intended purpose. I have never shot groups with it cause that not what I got it for. My son has a daniel defense that is awesome to.

 

[TML75]

I know nothing about lmt, may be the best thing ever. However, I have a lwrc and love it. Its never failed to fire and I have complete confidence in it should I ever need it for its intended purpose. I have never shot groups with it cause that not what I got it for. My son has a daniel defense that is awesome to.

Genuine question- how did you zero your LWRC if you never shot any groups?

 

[Dos XX]

LaRue 16" OBR?

 

[tony]

I have a BCM

 

[Macro]

Colt 6920 if you can spend 800-900.

If not but a premium upper from PSA and one of their complete lowers

 

[Rob762]

Unless you’re already an incredibly proficient AR user, you’re better off running a BCM and spending the rest on ammo and training. You aren’t really gaining that much with the higher end builders unless you’re shooting high volumes while suppressed. The AR itself is an incredibly reliable platform, and as long as your parts are in spec, it will run reliably and accurately. Anything after $1200 is generally just for show for 90% of users.

 

[Stache Attack]

Not as product testing and knowledge as FORM… I’d pry trust him if I only had one! I personally have a larue upper, aero lower m4e1. Assembled the lower myself, upper just bought the larue package, barrel, hand guard etc(all assembled myself bought with Covid dollars). should’ve looked at muzzle devices harder before I bought one pinned(swapping out once cam arrives).

Either way with your decision I think you’ll be happy, but I’d just trust FORM

 

[2ski]

What do you guys thay are in the know think of Daniel Defense? I've had my eye on one for a while but haven't pulled the trigger. Ddm4 specifically.

 

[Marbles]

@Formidilosus what are your thoughts on BCM uppers? Not as good as LMT, but are they in the ballpark?