What caused the Rokslide shift to smallest caliber and cartridges?

[ElPollo]

Form.....I see Bryce Townsley has, and now editor in chief J. Scott Omstead are calling you .223 for large game and long range small caliber hunting guys out.....publicly, in American Hunter magazine (NRA). Not you specifically, but the concept you are pushing(perhaps he knows of the RS 223 pages). Page 8 of the December issue. Me personally, I don't care a lot about what others shoot but I certainly won't be doing it since I can handle the cartridges that I shoot. I just find it interesting, with the wider viewpoint on the concept, outside of RS. Seems you have an excellent opportunity to set them right, like you attempt to do here. Somehow, I don't think you will exercise it.

Isn’t calling someone out publicly in a magazine these days sort of like trying to use a plastic straw for a bullhorn? I can’t remember the last time I bought or read a magazine about anything. Gotta be a decade or more.

 

[pacoalcracker]

spoonbill, I just got my copy of the AH magazine earlier today and was reading it tonight. I am not an electronic magazine subscriber, only the hard magazine copy. I'm sure someone can find it. Page 8 under the E.I.C. "saysme" column.

Bryce had an article "Long Range Values" in a previous AH magazine issue....can't remember which one but a recent one. But it's also in Decembers issue on page 8.

 

[woods89]

Since we all generally look to American Hunter for our hard hitting science based terminal info?

I've always felt they were one of the worst "I was invited to ****ranch in Texas by (insert company name here) to test the new ******.

Not exactly confidence inspiring when it comes to unbiased outdoor testing.

 

[pacoalcracker]

Elpollo...millions of NRA members get AH magazine...and read it. Sorry if you cannot see the benefits to reading, and more importantly, backing those that protect your freedoms to shoot and hunt. It's your loss to contend with. I read every single day......it's part of retaining intelligence.

 

[pacoalcracker]

woods89...here is your chance to be the hero and set them right...but you won't.

 

[woods89]

woods89...here is your chance to be the hero and set them right...but you won't.

I've posted all my kills in the last 3 years in the 223 and 6.5 threads. Those, as well as the 6mm thread, have massive amounts of terminal data.

Outside of that, I'm not interested in setting them straight. The info is there........

Not trying to be a jerk, and I probably shouldn't have said anything, but nothing American Hunter or any number of magazines writes is going to change my results.

 

[Spoonbill]

spoonbill, I just got my copy of the AH magazine earlier today and was reading it tonight. I am not an electronic magazine subscriber, only the hard magazine copy. I'm sure someone can find it. Page 8 under the E.I.C. "saysme" column.

Bryce had an article "Long Range Values" in a previous AH magazine issue....can't remember which one but a recent one. But it's also in Decembers issue on page 8.

I checked the website and found some articles discussing the 223 as a great choice for a deer round, newest one is a few months old so wasn’t sure if I searched wrong(highly likely) or if it was just in print. I bet it hits the website in a month or two, should be an interesting read.
I know some of those writers like Bryce Towsley are fans of the 338 and up so I am interested to read what he says.

 

[fwafwow]

I got my copies today in the mail and they went right into the bin. After seeing a post above, I retrieved a copy and read the referenced page. Meh. Nothing I read was of any substance. That doesn't mean the writers don't have expertise, but they aren't demonstrating it in the space allotted. Would be of interest (to me) to hear how "conventional wisdom" in shooting is any different from the term used in other contexts - which are very often proven wrong with the passage of time and additional information.

 

[goalie]

I'm old. I used to think red dots or optics on rifles were unnecessary. We qualified to 500 with irons. We didn't need any optic or dot.

Then I tried an Aimpoint.

I was wrong. They're faster and just plain better in every way.

Anyhow I learned that conventional wisdom is often anything but.

 

[gabenzeke]

I can't help it. It has to be pointed out. FPC>NRA

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

 

[fwafwow]

I can't help it. It has to be pointed out. FPC>NRA

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

Agreed. But it’s a pretty low bar.

 

[pacoalcracker]

anyone trying to keep people away from taking our hunting and shooting rights away, regardless how efficient they are....seems to be better than nothing. i am 100% certain, if not for the NRA and SCI actions over the past decades, none of us would have hunting and shooting rights today. don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

 

[fwafwow]

anyone trying to keep people away from taking our hunting and shooting rights away, regardless how efficient they are....seems to be better than nothing. i am 100% certain, if not for the NRA and SCI actions over the past decades, none of us would have hunting and shooting rights today. don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

I guess we can agree to disagree. There’s no way to compare the NRA to what might have been if they didn’t spend so lavishly on themselves. Maybe they saved our rights, maybe they didn’t. But they could have done better and still have room for improvement. But that’s just my opinion.

 

[nagibson1]

Is there a range limit for

Yeah KHntr, with an 88gr bullet and AI capacity increase, it seems like that would perform as well as a .243 in 2002 at least. Were these three all 1 shot kills? And did the shots produce a bleeding exit wound? I would love to feel confident shooting a lower caliber with all it's benefits and efficiencies. I have just been feeling like "lowest" for me would be 6.5ish- .260/7-08 or the like.
But as I'm trying to lengthen my effective range, I want something that can grow with me. I'm out to 430 in ideal circumstances, but I'd like to get to 550 eventually. That's why I've stuck with the 30-06 or considered 280ai or 6.5prc as the "lowest" I could go.
For years I've sought to be a .243 for deer and 30-06 for elk guy, and my kids learn on reduced loads in .243 and .270 after they learn the basics in 22lr and an AR platform .223. I'd really like to get down to one gun. even one load.

Would someone advocating small caliber answer this range question?

 

[woods89]

@pacoalcracker , I'm probably being overly grumpy about this. Don't take me too seriously.
We set trusses in the wind today, it's made me a little irascible tonight....

 

[gabenzeke]

Is there a range limit for

Would someone advocating small caliber answer this range question?

Your range is limited by velocity provided you're accurate enough. 77 tmk for example is I believe reliable to 1800 fps.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

 

[Bluefish]

So a 250 grain Nosler Partition out of a 35 Whelen has absolutely nothing on a 223 using relatively soft hunting/match style bullets? Personally I feel that for most of us a 7-08 running good bullets weighing 120-140 grains at the same velocities or higher than a 223 can push the 77 gr. TMK is at a minimum going to do as well and on average outperform it every time. Looking further into it the 22 ARC pushing the same bullets as the 223 might be a better choice than the 223. I am not saying the 77 TMK isn't of value at the speeds the 223 is capable of I just don't see it as smashingly better than a lot of other mild kicking rifles.

First let me say I own and hunt with a 35 whelen, but after not getting a result I expected on an animal I started looking at why.

The 250g partition vs a 77 Tmk. Max load per nosler is 2600 fps, you can buy a 2750 load with the 77 tmk. The 77tmk is faster out to 500 yards and drops below 1800 about 475 yards. The 35 whelen makes it to about 450 yards before dropping below 1800. Wind for both is almost the same out to 450 yards. If speed is key to making a bullet work, both are close in speed and drift up to usable range.

Now let’s look at recoil, the 35 whelen in a 8 lb rifle is 34 ftlbs. The 77 tmk is 4.4. Which one is easier to shoot?

The 35 whelen has the potential to do a lot more damage, but a partition is designed not to maximize the wound channel and conserve energy to make sure some of the bullet exits. Also the recoil is huge. Pretty sure no one can shoot it as well as a 223.

I only take my 35 whelen now when I need longer range even though i have to use 35 cal or bigger. I have other rifles that can do the job with less recoil.

 

[atmat]

i am 100% certain, if not for the NRA and SCI actions over the past decades, none of us would have hunting and shooting rights today.

The fact that you’re comfortable saying “100% certain” about something you can’t remotely test makes me doubt anything else you say. It’s exacerbated by the fact that NRA is an incredibly poorly-run, borderline-fraudulent organization.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Regardless of the NRA improperly spending, don't think for one second they haven't been a firewall for shooting and second amendment rights. What the hell?

 

[Spoonbill]

Regardless of the NRA improperly spending, don't think for one second they haven't been a firewall for shooting and second amendment rights. What the hell?

Not to derail this thread too much but the NRA supported the Hughes Amendment and the AWB. With the AWB they said “well we fought for a 10 year sunset ban on it.”
I have other examples but to get this thread back on track…. I took my 243 elk hunting this year to prove a point that it killed just as well if not better than my buddies boomer mags. Unfortunately I never got a chance to get a shot off.