Gunwerks going into receivership

[Moneyball]

I want to know where I can get an equivalent of a gunwerks $10k setup for $3-4K.

Look at my most recent guns classified post...


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[tdhanses]

In order, you pay the govt first then insurance then employees, Owner last. I guarantee owner did not get paid last.

anybody with an order with this place should be very cautious. Even in receivership shenanigans happen.

Yeah but the owner being the sole holder will lose everything, he just does’t know it yet.

 

[Laelkhunter]

Well, when you take a significant step down in scope reliability something has gotta give...or maybe NF recognized a sinking ship.

By a significant step down, are you referring to stepping down from a NF to a Revic, or NF to Kahles? I don't think Kahles is a step down, but maybe I misunderstood your reply-If so, I apologize.

 

[Middleofnowhere]

Not remitting sales sale tax is usually a pretty good indicator of a drain circle.

You’ve probably ordered recently ordered from an out of state vendor that didn’t charge sales tax. Several rokslide sponsors even claimed they wouldn’t charge sales tax for while before states started cracking down.
Gunwerks sold a bunch of other stuff besides rifles.

 

[Middleofnowhere]

“Tikkas just don’t shoot good”... At least they pay their bills.

Maybe they should have bought a Tikka.

Right on time, Tikka fanboys...
Too bad some Americans will likely lose their livelihood.

on another note, Gunwerks has been extremely generous over the years to conservation organizations. They have donated several rifles to fund raising banquets I’ve attended.

 

[MidGAHunter]

By a significant step down, are you referring to stepping down from a NF to a Revic, or NF to Kahles? I don't think Kahles is a step down, but maybe I misunderstood your reply-If so, I apologize.

No experience with Revic. Nothing at all (in my limited experience) wrong with Kahles. Those are nice scopes. Was referring to the fact that on their website Nightforce is no longer an option but rather Leupold and Vortex.

 

[Trial153]

You’ve probably ordered recently ordered from an out of state vendor that didn’t charge sales tax. Several rokslide sponsors even claimed they wouldn’t charge sales tax for while before states started cracking down.
Gunwerks sold a bunch of other stuff besides rifles.

I am not following you. The article stated that they havent remited sales tax since the third quarter of 2018. Regardless of if they charged sales tax to out of state customers they still would have some tax liability( in state sales ect) and therefore they would be obligated to remit sales tax, most likely quarterly.

So with that said I stand by what wrote. For GW or any place else for that mater to fail to remit quarterly taxes( at least the token minimum) is a huge red flag.

 

[Shotshill]

Hmmm, high dollar hunts all over the world including the US and didnt pay their taxes.
Im sure the capitol loan from WF was bolstered
by the $3mil grant from the state of Wyoming.
Im sure the books were not represented correctly
And the State needs to look at their grant process.
Its hard to imagine a grant from the state to an entity who isnt current on their taxes. Youd think it would be a phased in basis as the entity meets its intended goals and maybe it was... Either way, The citizens
of Wy deserve better as the fiduciary responsibility
wasnt met. Hopefully everyone learns and the GW
Crew, well they will show up again..

 

[Fonkie]

Maybe this has nothing to do with their business financial troubles but Aaron has changed a lot in the last few years. Hopefully they can come out of it & get back on track for the sake of their families & employees even though I’m not a prospective customer.

 

[Billy Goat]

I wonder what amount of the $365k is fines and or penalties. Sales tax in Wyoming isn't but 4%. That's over 9m in sales.

 

[TreeWalking]

Wish them the best. I have one of their rifles and is very accurate and easy to use quickly. Just as with singers or actors that create great art but have traits that are annoying...there is no guarantee that a well-made product has an executive team that are easy to admire. There will be a lot of roadkill in our industry the next 2 years including a few outfitters, hunt brokers, dude ranches, custom rifle makers, etc.

 

[DangerRanger]

So I have a few items paid for on backorder with Gunwerks. I was told it would take a months. How should I feel right now?

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This is why I pay for all gunstuffs save actual gunsmith fees with credit card now. I got caught up in it with Jae when they went dark last year. If you have paid with credit, you should be fine with a charge back. Doesn’t make it not suck but will suck less.

As far as Gunwerks goes, it’s sad to see this happening to a LRH centered company and no matter who was at fault here it sucks for the sport. Gunwerks employed a lot of people and some of their instructors were top shooters. Sad.


Whole lotta people with zero information sure of a lot of stuff on here

 

[SoDaky]

"its hard to imagine a grant from the state to an entity who isnt current on their taxes. Youd think it would be a phased in basis as the entity meets its intended goals and maybe it was... Either way, The citizens
of Wy deserve better as the fiduciary responsibility "

So true!

 

[Terrapin]

It seems like companies this size in the outdoor industry (say $15-$75M annual revenue) are constantly going in and out of bankruptcy or going through a merger or acquisition. It’s a cyclic boom or bust industry with a fickle consumer base... generally run by people that not necessarily businessmen. Generally they grow exponentially for a couple years because of innovative products and aggressive marketing... then use those growth years as a projected trajectory. They use these projections for building expansion, staffing, salaries and bonuses, machines and marketing commitments. Of course banks and economic development councils love a “meteoric rise” story, and eat up all the glossy marketing bs... they’ll loan you as much as you can take when your on the upswing. But then things flatten out, or take a dip. Your burn rate, debt payments and salaries were based on the good times... you miss a couple payments, and suddenly those banks that were humping your leg a month ago won’t give you another penny to get through the dry spell, and make demands that throw you straight into receivership.


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[gbflyer]

Tough to make a living in the firearm business. Hope they are able to sort it out. Probably some real decent people work there.

 

[wapitibob]

The banker will show up with the Sheriff before long and that'll be the end of it.

 

[FURMAN]

Delinquent Taxpayer List - Wyoming Department of Revenue

revenue.wyo.gov

 

[DangerRanger]

Delinquent Taxpayer List - Wyoming Department of Revenue

revenue.wyo.gov

Sniff sniff

Hint of bullshit in the air

 

[tdhanses]

I am not following you. The article stated that they havent remited sales tax since the third quarter of 2018. Regardless of if they charged sales tax to out of state customers they still would have some tax liability( in state sales ect) and therefore they would be obligated to remit sales tax, most likely quarterly.

So with that said I stand by what wrote. For GW or any place else for that mater to fail to remit quarterly taxes( at least the token minimum) is a huge red flag.

What I find interesting is the bank claims they haven’t remitted sales tax, only way they would know is based on payments coming out of their specific account And not seeing any to state DOR’s. The sales tax claim is a stretch, while it could be true WF would not know, if they used say a BOA account after the point in 2018 they claim.

I see nothing from any DOR making these claims, also for everyone claiming you have to collect and remit from every state due to the Wayfair case, that is a bad blanket statement, many states have a min threshold before requiring businesses to register and collect and that is anywhere from $100k to $250k in sales in a given year, every state is different, this of course doesn’t apply to the state they operate in where they would have sales tax on all retail sales, WY. I have no idea what their sales are by state but I’m guessing it isn’t over that threshold in most states. They may have been over collecting and made a business change based on a better understanding, maybe they had fewer customers coming into WY to pick up their rifles, just to much unknown to even remotely make this claim.

Also if their debt is $2.8-$6 million, their sales are probably much less, maybe $1 or $2 million a year in retail goods, just a guess as I’ve never really followed this company. Also what part of the $10k price is the tpp and what is their special services, such as labor, load development and dialing in the rifle, hopefully they split this out on a receipt to lower any tax burden on non taxable service. All I’m saying is there’s a big stretch with WF making this claim. WY doesn’t tax labor or services and their DOR is pretty good to work with, same goes for many other states.

Being a custom manufacture direct to the consumer, they could invoice to only have tax be applicable to the actual components used, labor and services exempt, so even on a $10k package, maybe only $5k is taxable tpp. I assume this isn’t like going to Cabela’s but more like going to any gunsmith that separates individual items out on their invoices and they are large enough to not just blanket tax but be more effective towards tax laws then small one man shops.

Also another reason for GW to work with WF is to restructure their loan, be interesting to see what comes out of it once more actual facts come out, claims by WF are not facts, they are just being aggressive for not getting their payments. Maybe WF pissed off the owner and he said screw them, who knows. I highly doubt WF has access to the books and records of GW.

 

[Ndbowhunter]

If ur going to take anything Wells Fargo says as fact I got a couple bank accounts full of money for ya.

It was probably opened by Wells Fargo without ur permission.

not a fan of the gunwerks kooks, or their ilk but burning them at the stake because Wells Fargo sues them,

then pissing on their grave like a bunch of drunken frat boys at kristallnacht is a bit much... then again it’s par for the course regarding human behaviour on social media.