Gunwerks going into receivership

[DarylG619]

Delinquent Taxpayer List - Wyoming Department of Revenue

revenue.wyo.gov

The article doesn't say they owe the tax to Wyoming, it actually doesn't indicate what states it is owed to.

 

[DangerRanger]

If ur going to take anything Wells Fargo says as fact I got a couple bank accounts full of money for ya.

It was probably opened by Wells Fargo without ur permission.

not a fan of the gunwerks kooks, or their ilk but burning them at the stake because Wells Fargo sues them,

then pissing on their grave like a bunch of drunken frat boys at kristallnacht is a bit much... then again it’s par for the course regarding human behaviour on social media.

Not to mention they are literally being sued right now for improperly shuffling covid loans

 

[DarylG619]

What I find interesting is the bank claims they haven’t remitted sales tax, only way they would know is based on payments coming out of their specific account And not seeing any to state DOR’s. The sales tax claim is a stretch, while it could be true WF would not know, if they used say a BOA account after the point in 2018 they claim.

I see nothing from any DOR making these claims, also for everyone claiming you have to collect and remit from every state due to the Wayfair case, that is a bad blanket statement, many states have a min threshold before requiring businesses to register and collect and that is anywhere from $100k to $250k in sales in a given year, every state is different, this of course doesn’t apply to the state they operate in where they would have sales tax on all retail sales, WY. I have no idea what their sales are by state but I’m guessing it isn’t over that threshold in most states. They may have been over collecting and made a business change based on a better understanding, maybe they had fewer customers coming into WY to pick up their rifles, just to much unknown to even remotely make this claim.

Also if their debt is $2.8-$6 million, their sales are probably much less, maybe $1 or $2 million a year in retail goods, just a guess as I’ve never really followed this company. Also what part of the $10k price is the tpp and what is their special services, such as labor, load development and dialing in the rifle, hopefully they split this out on a receipt to lower any tax burden on non taxable service. All I’m saying is there’s a big stretch with WF making this claim. WY doesn’t tax labor or services and their DOR is pretty good to work with, same goes for many other states.

Being a custom manufacture direct to the consumer, they could invoice to only have tax be applicable to the actual components used, labor and services exempt, so even on a $10k package, maybe only $5k is taxable tpp. I assume this isn’t like going to Cabela’s but more like going to any gunsmith that separates individual items out on their invoices and they are large enough to not just blanket tax but be more effective towards tax laws then small one man shops.

Also another reason for GW to work with WF is to restructure their loan, be interesting to see what comes out of it once more actual facts come out, claims by WF are not facts, they are just being aggressive for not getting their payments. Maybe WF pissed off the owner and he said screw them, who knows. I highly doubt WF has access to the books and records of GW.

This is mostly accurate. In terms of the threshold Iowa and Kansas do not have a threshold at all. Texas, California, New York, Tennessee have a 500k threshold. Mississippi and Alabama have a 250k threshold. The rest of the states have a 100k threshold.Two caveats to this are most states have a sales OR transaction threshold where the transaction level is 100 to 200 transactions which also trigger it. The second caveat is that almost all states include exempt sales and services into the threshold calculation. So the company doesn't pay tax on those dollars but they are included in the threshold calculation.

 

[tdhanses]

This is mostly accurate. In terms of the threshold Iowa and Kansas do not have a threshold at all. Texas, California, New York, Tennessee have a 500k threshold. Mississippi and Alabama have a 250k threshold. The rest of the states have a 100k threshold.Two caveats to this are most states have a sales OR transaction threshold where the transaction level is 100 to 200 transactions which also trigger it. The second caveat is that almost all states include exempt sales and services into the threshold calculation. So the company doesn't pay tax on those dollars but they are included in the threshold calculation.

Like I said, it varies and a blanket statement is not correct. Many just assume tax is due everywhere now and it’s not correct.

 

[DarylG619]

Like I said, it varies and a blanket statement is not correct. Many just assume tax is due everywhere now and it’s not correct.

Sorry I wasnt trying to disagree with you or imply that you were wrong. I was just trying to point out the few threshold that were different and the couple caveats to the calculation. I agree that the blanket statements are incorrect.

 

[tdhanses]

Sorry I wasnt trying to disagree with you or imply that you were wrong. I was just trying to point out the few threshold that were different and the couple caveats to the calculation. I agree that the blanket statements are incorrect.

oh no worries I didn’t take it that way.

 

[SoDaky]

But but but....WF is donating 175 million to Covid needy aren’t they?

 

[Ynothunt41]

I have one of their rangefinders. That thing is amazing. Super clear glass (I have a swaro spotting scope) and the rangefinder works perfect for gun and bow hunting. Some of the best money I have ever spent. I had another gunsmith build my long range gun. I would never spend that much on a GW gun.

 

[n2horns]

 

[Middleofnowhere]

I have one of their rangefinders. That thing is amazing. Super clear glass (I have a swaro spotting scope) and the rangefinder works perfect for gun and bow hunting. Some of the best money I have ever spent. I had another gunsmith build my long range gun. I would never spend that much on a GW gun.

I was hoping to buy an American made rangefinder. Hope Gunwerks sorts this out.

I can’t believe all the bitter haters on this site rooting for an American company they’ve never done business with to fail.
Wells Fargo is an anti 2A company that has committed criminal fraud and received Billion$ in taxpayer bailouts over the years. They are not good guys...

 

[DangerRanger]

I was hoping to buy an American made rangefinder. Hope Gunwerks sorts this out.

I can’t believe all the bitter haters on this site rooting for an American company they’ve never done business with to fail.
Wells Fargo is an anti 2A company that has committed criminal fraud and received Billion$ in taxpayer bailouts over the years. They are not good guys...

They insulted the precious

 

[Ynothunt41]

I was hoping to buy an American made rangefinder. Hope Gunwerks sorts this out.

I can’t believe all the bitter haters on this site rooting for an American company they’ve never done business with to fail.
Wells Fargo is an anti 2A company that has committed criminal fraud and received Billion$ in taxpayer bailouts over the years. They are not good guys...

I have talked to them a few times before I bought the rangefinder and they were very knowledgeable and great to talk to.

 

[MattB]

What I find interesting is the bank claims they haven’t remitted sales tax, only way they would know is based on payments coming out of their specific account And not seeing any to state DOR’s. The sales tax claim is a stretch, while it could be true WF would not know, if they used say a BOA account after the point in 2018 they claim.

Banks have entire departments dedicated to receiving incoming levies from tax authorities againat their account holders for unpaid taxes. So no, monitoring outgoing payments is not the only way a bank could know if a company was behind on paying sales tax.

Not to pick on you, but as a person who has spent 25 years in the financial services industry this thread just demonstrates how very little most people know about the things they post definitively about on this site. 10's of really poor assumptions and flat out mis-truths in this thread alone.

 

[Bl704]

The Fed is going around with a new version of TARP and Wells Fargo sees their chance to dump their bad loans on the US taxpayer.

Disagree. It's nothing like Tarp. 2 all tarp money was paid back to the treasury, with interest.

Having said that, some banks have and do have some questionable practices. And same with some borrowers.

 

[Bl704]

So I have a few items paid for on backorder with Gunwerks. I was told it would take a months. How should I feel right now?

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

Unlubed

 

[Bl704]

Not to pick on you, but as a person who has spent 25 years in the financial services industry this thread just demonstrates how very little most people know about the things they post definitively about on this site. 10's of really poor assumptions and flat out mis-truths in this thread alone.

Must be my brother from another mother, 25yrs also.

 

[tdhanses]

Banks have entire departments dedicated to receiving incoming levies from tax authorities againat their account holders for unpaid taxes. So no, monitoring outgoing payments is not the only way a bank could know if a company was behind on paying sales tax.

Not to pick on you, but as a person who has spent 25 years in the financial services industry this thread just demonstrates how very little most people know about the things they post definitively about on this site. 10's of really poor assumptions and flat out mis-truths in this thread alone.

That’s if there is a levy by the state, which is public information, are they on WY’s delinquent taxpayer list posted earlier?

I’m not saying WF or GW is correct just not enough facts. In the end all I’m saying is maybe there is more to it and just because they stopped filing doesn’t explain the why.

Also being in banking 25 years, do you get to see the operational and business changes your customers make, or the decision from tax consultants?

 

[MattB]

That’s interesting and I can see that for income tax but I just don’t buy it for state and local indirect taxes, doesn’t mean I’m correct.

I’m not saying WF or GW is correct just not enough facts. In the end all I’m saying is maybe there is more to it and just because they stopped filing doesn’t explain the why.

Depending on the type of financing, banks will perform periodic collateral exams which can include a books and records component. I would imagine non-payment of taxes could be uncovered through that process.

So too could be the case if the company had its financial statements audited (requirement of some financings). I've seen instances of internal fraud that were much more cleverly conceived than non-payment of taxes uncovered during the preparation of audited financial statements.

 

[tdhanses]

Depending on the type of financing, banks will perform periodic collateral exams which can include a books and records component. I would imagine non-payment of taxes could be uncovered through that process.

So too could be the case if the company had its financial statements audited (requirement of some financings). I've seen instances of internal fraud that were much more cleverly conceived than non-payment of taxes uncovered during the preparation of audited financial statements.

Yeah but financial statement audits from the states, especially sales tax takes much more time then from 2018 to current, if one was even done. Last WY state audit I handled was slow as they have very few auditors so their backlog is/was quiet large from what they told me and GW is still a small fish in WY.

I agree no payments being made could be uncovered but that doesn’t mean much without knowing why, business and tax law changes happen all the time, for all we know they were overcharging their customers tax prior to this point and could be open for a class action as well.

Now I know this is a stretch but Cody is not far from MT, all they would have to do is have their customers not being shipped goods take possession in MT and bam, sales tax could drastically be reduced. This would be easy to say hey we have a private range here we’ll do a quick run through and then send them on their way, wouldn’t be hard to get a MT FFL to handle the transfer.

Many avenues this could go. And easily this could be WF being a big dick bank, pretty easy to tell the house attorneys to go after a small company.

Also if GW stopped paying WF, doubt they would let them review their books and records. Which is probably why WF took the route it did.

 

[ID_Matt]

Fake News: Reporters got Wells Fargo Gunwerks Lawsuit Story Wrong

Aaron Davidson, owner of the high-end custom rifle manufacturing company Gunwerks, said a lawsuit filed by banking giant Wells Fargo against his company on May 20 contained wrong information which spurred erroneous reports about the company’s financial health.

www.internationalsportsman.com