Ghost Gun / 80% lowers law change

[Flyjunky]

Take the # of homicides involving a firearm and divide by the amount that were perpetrated by an undocumented person.

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is that all firearms or ghost guns?

 

[amassi]

oh, I thought I said ghost guns, not just any firearm.

No such metric exists since "ghost guns" aren't real nor recorded
Firearms are either serialized or not. Those recovered as a result of a homicide are merely recorded as lacking a sn

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[BRTreedogs]

Go on then, you're going to have to explain to me exactly how 2 guys meeting in a Walmart parking lot is going to be policed.....

Sting operation. They do it with straw purchases all the time, buyer is an undercover.
After they make a few examples of people. Everyone else will be to scared.

 

[BRTreedogs]

If a complete ar lower is $49 on PSA today and a 80% lower is $129 just to not have a number I have to ask why is it worth 100% more for a law abiding citizen to have an untraceable gun?

Because I can have it delivered to my home vs the unnecessary inconvenience of going to an ffl

 

[robtattoo]

Sting operation. They do it with straw purchases all the time, buyer is an undercover.
After they make a few examples of people. Everyone else will be to scared.

It's working great on the War on Drugs too.....

 

[BRTreedogs]

It's working great on the War on Drugs too.....

There is a profit margin in moving drugs.
Not sure there is is enough profit in selling your 2nd hand fire arms to make it worth the risk of getting pounded my uncle Rico in the pen

 

[amassi]

It's working great on the War on Drugs too.....

Created the 3rd largest funded military in the world. As that front(drugs) winds down those departments will need a new golden goose to keep the federal dollars rolling in and that will be guns.

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[Flyjunky]

No such metric exists since "ghost guns" aren't real nor recorded
Firearms are either serialized or not. Those recovered as a result of a homicide are merely recorded as lacking a sn

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according to justice.gov,
"From January 1, 2016, through December 31, 2020, there were approximately 23,906 suspected PMFs reported to ATF as having been recovered by law enforcement, including in connection with 325 homicides or attempted homicides."

PMF's are personally made firearms, aka ghost guns. So, in 5 years they accounted for 325 homicides? If I'm reading that correctly that's just a slow 6 months in Chicago.

 

[HandgunHTR]

I think a lot of you are failing to connect the dots.

Once all of the guns require a serial number and all transfers have to be papered, it becomes much easier for them to go out and get these firearms (or arrest and ruin those “dangerous criminals” who no longer have them) when they determine that these “implements of war” are no longer legal, because only the government is qualified to wage war.

Additionally, for those in the “who cares because I don’t own any personally made firearms” crowd, I sure hope you also don’t change triggers, barrels, modify bolts, add muzzle brakes, etc, because all of those things are about to become illegal too, unless you have a “manufacturer“ do them. Don’t believe me, check out the proposed definitions of “firearms“ in the new ATF interpretation,specifically the language related to “fire control parts and housings”.

This is just the next step towards what they really want which is all out bans/steep restrictions on ownership. If you don’t believe this then you have your head too far up your own arse to have a serious conversation with. Sorry.

 

[IDElkmagnet]

Because I can have it delivered to my home vs the unnecessary inconvenience of going to an ffl

True I do it often enough but I have decided I'll buy two and spend $15 to support my local ffl.
Now if I wanted to buy 1000 80% lowers machine them and sell them to a cartel member then i could probably make 15k in a week. Its a pretty good way to get large amounts of guns into organized crime.
I haven't read many things on this thread that are untrue most of you guys are right but at what cost?
Ghost guns are really bad optics on the gun industry and gun owners.
Its a basic risk assessment. The undecided about guns undoubtedly have trouble understanding the risk vs reward of untraceable guns being needed by legal gun owners at an extra cost.

The recruiting of undecided will be what decides the future of gun ownership.

 

[Flyjunky]

I think a lot of you are failing to connect the dots.

Once all of the guns require a serial number and all transfers have to be papered, it becomes much easier for them to go out and get these firearms (or arrest and ruin those “dangerous criminals” who no longer have them) when they determine that these “implements of war” are no longer legal, because only the government is qualified to wage war.

Additionally, for those in the “who cares because I don’t own any personally made firearms” crowd, I sure hope you also don’t change triggers, barrels, modify bolts, add muzzle brakes, etc, because all of those things are about to become illegal too, unless you have a “manufacturer“ do them. Don’t believe me, check out the proposed definitions of “firearms“ in the new ATF interpretation,specifically the language related to “fire control parts and housings”.

This is just the next step towards what they really want which is all out bans/steep restrictions on ownership. If you don’t believe this then you have your head too far up your own arse to have a serious conversation with. Sorry.

Exactly!! Like someone said above, this is just one small step of a long term goal.

 

[IDElkmagnet]

Additionally, for those in the “who cares because I don’t own any personally made firearms” crowd, I sure hope you also don’t change triggers, barrels, modify bolts, add muzzle brakes, etc, because all of those things are about to become illegal too, unless you have a “manufacturer“ do them. Don’t believe me, check out the proposed definitions of “firearms“ in the new ATF interpretation,specifically the language related to “fire control parts and housings”.

This is news to me I have no Idea how to find this can you show us something from the horses mouth?

 

[SirChooCH]

For anyone curious, r/ FossCAD on Reddit shows examples of what you could 3D print at home. No way to really trace that so cat is already out of the bag and this law doesn't mean anything unless they ban peer to peer downloads, personal use of CAD design, and tracing 3D printing material sales I guess...?

 

[z987k]

Be sure to get the serial number turned in for that and a background check done. That thing looks dangerous!

You know it's funny, I pulled that photo off google, but it's actually off ebay. I guess ebay sells firearms according to the ATF. Blocks of metal.

If anyone isn't aware, the 0% lower actually is a thing, and you can buy a desktop CNC that comes programmed to put out lowers from blocks of aluminum.

Zero Percent – Ghost Gunner

ghostgunner.net

 

[blackdawg]

For all adamantly opposed to a non serialized frame/lowers ban…

What regulations are you ok with existing regarding firearms?

Plenty of regulations in place, one small step at a time to take away your rights, Ol Senility also wants to make firearms manufacturers liable. The only stance is a Hard stance opposing any new restrictions, give an inch and they will take the whole enchilada! It’s definitely a long game, power play. They get what they want and the democrats will be free to impose their will on old white redneck hunting/fishing crackers like me and many others on this site.


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[jdinville3]

I think a lot of you are failing to connect the dots.

Once all of the guns require a serial number and all transfers have to be papered, it becomes much easier for them to go out and get these firearms (or arrest and ruin those “dangerous criminals” who no longer have them) when they determine that these “implements of war” are no longer legal, because only the government is qualified to wage war.

Additionally, for those in the “who cares because I don’t own any personally made firearms” crowd, I sure hope you also don’t change triggers, barrels, modify bolts, add muzzle brakes, etc, because all of those things are about to become illegal too, unless you have a “manufacturer“ do them. Don’t believe me, check out the proposed definitions of “firearms“ in the new ATF interpretation,specifically the language related to “fire control parts and housings”.

This is just the next step towards what they really want which is all out bans/steep restrictions on ownership. If you don’t believe this then you have your head too far up your own arse to have a serious conversation with. Sorry.

Thanks for pointing those key things out on any modifications make it illegal. It's not the independent crazy whacka doodle needing a PMF/ghost gun/ no SN, it's everything after that hidden in their agenda. I believe in freedom of rights and as someone who doesn't violate the law I should be able to purchase what I rightfully can via a law.

A simple way to Bob Ross this is as simple as this; If you commit vehicular manslaughter from drinking and driving do we outlaw the make and model of car? But why wouldn't we, it couldn't have been the person driving because they just broke up with the lady or dude they thought was love.

This new version of the law might not happen or even happen soon, but my intention was for people to stay ahead of this if they have projects needing finished.

Been some good conversation from this for sure and glad for the most part that's what it is and not blaming the people replying when it's not on them no matter which side they believe in.

 

[jdinville3]

You know it's funny, I pulled that photo off google, but it's actually off ebay. I guess ebay sells firearms according to the ATF. Blocks of metal.

If anyone isn't aware, the 0% lower actually is a thing, and you can buy a desktop CNC that comes programmed to put out lowers from blocks of aluminum.

Zero Percent – Ghost Gunner

ghostgunner.net

Which will be what starts selling if you can find them!

 

[slick]

Violent Felons or those deemed mentally unfit are banned from possessing a firearm...that is about it. Obviously there are probably some small caveats.

Full auto, suppressors, magazine capacities etc are all complete B.S...it is proven in the first two by the fact that if you just have a little extra money to give to daddy government you can buy them. So in theory the government doesn't give a rats ass as long as they get a cut.

Plenty of regulations in place, one small step at a time to take away your rights, Ol Senility also wants to make firearms manufacturers liable. The only stance is a Hard stance opposing any new restrictions, give an inch and they will take the whole enchilada! It’s definitely a long game, power play. They get what they want and the democrats will be free to impose their will on old white redneck hunting/fishing crackers like me and many others on this site.


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I guess I'm failing to see where that answered the question. Not that this is an interrogation or that you need an attorney. I'll probably be viewed as a 2nd amendment anti by all the extremists. I fall exactly in the middle.

I'm just failing to see the "why" with all the current firearms on the market that are already manufactured and for sale that somehow don't meet the needs of someone and they feel the need an non serialized item that is partially built already? An answer of "because I can" is just fine by me. Just a curiosity is all. While owning semi auto pistols, large capacity magazines, AR-15s, extended mag shotguns, long range high powered centerfire rifles, etc. I've never felt the necessity for an 80% lower. So if they ban them whoop dee- it won't affect me, or my rights to defend myself, or from me purchasing another Glock, Daniel Defense, Kimber, etc.

When did partially completed lowers/80% glock frames come onto the picture? Was anyone complaining about it prior to that?

 

[BRTreedogs]

I guess I'm failing to see where that answered the question. Not that this is an interrogation or that you need an attorney. I'll probably be viewed as a 2nd amendment anti by all the extremists. I fall exactly in the middle.

I'm just failing to see the "why" with all the current firearms on the market that are already manufactured and for sale that somehow don't meet the needs of someone and they feel the need an non serialized item that is partially built already? An answer of "because I can" is just fine by me. Just a curiosity is all. While owning semi auto pistols, large capacity magazines, AR-15s, extended mag shotguns, long range high powered centerfire rifles, etc. I've never felt the necessity for an 80% lower. So if they ban them whoop dee- it won't affect me, or my rights to defend myself, or from me purchasing another Glock, Daniel Defense, Kimber, etc.

When did partially completed lowers/80% glock frames come onto the picture? Was anyone complaining about it prior to that?

Who was complaining about non serilized firearms before serial numbers and 4473s existed.?
The same ones as now, They who want to control them and take them.

I feel it is our rights as Americans.
I also feel there are no tangle benefits to imitating them.
All criminals will do is steal more guns to commit more crimes.
Just like drugs,
Make it all illegal and the black market will still be available for whoever has bad intentions.

I just simply do not believe that if the charge of murder is not enough to prevent someone from murder that banning 80% lowers will do a damn thing.

 

[jdinville3]

Who was complaining about non serilized firearms before serial numbers and 4473s existed.?
The same ones as now, They who want to control them and take them.

I feel it is our rights as Americans.
I also feel there are no tangle benefits to imitating them.
All criminals will do is steal more guns to commit more crimes.
Just like drugs,
Make it all illegal and the black market will still be available for whoever has bad intentions.

I just simply do not believe that if the charge of murder is not enough to prevent someone from murder that banning 80% lowers will do a damn thing.

"I just simply do not believe that if the charge of murder is not enough to prevent someone from murder that banning 80% lowers will do a damn thing"