Ghost Gun / 80% lowers law change

HandgunHTR

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I could go back and quote myself if you'd like.

I'm aware of the, generally speaking, Democratic agenda to remove firearms of all variety and form and function from the hands of law abiding citizens. I'm aware this bill is misplaced, is calculated, and utilizes fear to sway the mass populous much like any kind of regulation coming from politicians.

I'm aware of the 2nd amendment. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I'm aware of the sacrifices previous and current generations have made to allow you and I the freedoms from other countries and our own Government.

I'm also aware there are laws and regulations in place. Some beneficial to us, say sewage in the yard, speed limits, wildlife regulations. I'm aware there are regulations already in place for guns, but i also don't succumb that it should just be a free for all.

What i'm saying the world and all its glory isn't ended if they say "hey, you know what, maybe we shouldn't have plastic parts that are readily formed into major firearm components easily available"

Agree or disagree, that's it. But I'd bet money we'd get along over beers. Carry on gents.

I acknowledge that you are aware these things exist, however, based on your statements you are not taking that awareness past the first level of knowledge, which is "self".
You claim that you are aware that the "Democratic agenda to remove firearms of all variety and form and function from the hands of law abiding citizens.", yet since this step in achieving that end doesn't affect you, you are happy to just let it go through. The next step will be another "assault weapons ban" along with "high capacity magazines", just like they did in '94, however this time they won't be dumb enough to put a sunset on it. Is that the point at which you will care? They will probably include a grandfather clause in it, so you can keep your DD AR, so no, you won't care, will you? But, then another shooting will happen with a "grandfathered" AR, and BAM, the grandfather clause is tossed out. Turn them in, or else. Will you care then? After that, it will be semi-auto handguns. There go your Glocks and Kimbers. Will you care then? After that, semi-auto rifles and shotguns. Then comes licensing, insurance requirements, registration, etc. The next thing you know, firearms ownership will only be for the rich and famous, just like it is in Europe. Oh, and the criminals who don't give a sheite about laws anyway.

In regards to your "free for all" comment, that is total false equivalency. None of us are arguing that it should be a "free for all". What we are arguing is that there is already more than enough (too much) regulation in regards to firearms. How about they spend some time and money actually enforcing those laws rather than making new ones?

Finally, in response to your question about whether or not I "hang out" with criminals, I don't make it a habit to "hang out" with them, however in the business that I am in (industrial construction) there is a segment of our craft labor that have felony convictions of one type or another. I do interact with them on job sites and we talk hunting and fishing. Most of them that I know that are violating firearms laws are doing so by using firearms for hunting that are provided to them by their family members. Again, my sample size is not large, but it is personal experience. BTW, none of these guys have violent felonies. We won't hire them if they do.
 

260madman

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Shall not be infringed.

Don’t worry, if you commit a crime with a ghost gun you will be prosecuted. As opposed to a gun you filled out a 4473 for where you get off with no charges, right? Clown World.

Fix the culture of the demographic that commits the majority of crimes and shootings and suddenly there’s nothing to pin on gun owners. Culture :rolleyes:
 

hereinaz

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I fully consider myself to be a very conservative republican, but fail to see how ghost guns are a good thing for society. Maybe I’m alone
Cause you are not a libertarian.

Query: what true analysis have you done about the negative or positive effects of ghost guns?
 

robtattoo

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I certainly don't support it. I'm just saying if 80% 'ers went away we would still have all same firearms available to us except some off brand glock and/or AR lowers, etc. so while the bill isn't going to be effective at anything they claim it to be, i still don't buy into the crying about not being able to get an 80% plastic frame.

Count me lucky, but the government regulation rarely affects what I decide to do or don't on the daily.

In my opinion this isn't one whit to do with being able to buy or own a non- serialized firearm. I honestly believe that 90% of the honest pushback against regulation is that a huge amount of us are pissed at the amount of atf overreach.
By their own definition an 80% lower is not a firearm. The atf cannot change or create law, only enforce it & make suggestions. They defined, to the government, what they believe constitutes a firearm & laws were created around that definition. Now they want to change their minds???

The big pig in the bathtub for me, specifically related to this single topic: Sig Sauer.

Do you know which part of a common, modular Sig pistol constitutes the "firearm" portion? It's not the 100% built & milled upper (barrel, slide, striker assembly) It's not the 100% completely milled & ready to go lower (that bit that the atf want to make a firearm, but only a long as it's only 80% and only works for semi automatic rifles & glocks)
Nope, it's the fire control group. The trigger. The actual damn trigger.

I can have (and have had) every single part of a Sig P365 shipped right to my door except the FCG.

How do the atf deem that to be perfectly acceptable, yet they want to turn around & say that a block of aluminum that can be milled into a lower half which is still completely useless by itself, is now a firearm?! By their own f**king definition A COMPLETE, 100% BUILT LOWER doesn't meet the criteria of a firearm, as THEY wrote it!
 

BRTreedogs

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If we allow them to change definitions whenever they want next thing we know anything with a capacity 10 rounds or more will be a weapon of mass destruction and you will be a terrorist if you own one.
 
OP
J

jdinville3

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If we allow them to change definitions whenever they want next thing we know anything with a capacity 10 rounds or more will be a weapon of mass destruction and you will be a terrorist if you own one.
I think this is the kind of angles of thought they have! They know they can't change the law, but changing and controlling aspects of gun ownership is exactly what they can affect.
 

MTWop

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Cause you are not a libertarian.

Query: what true analysis have you done about the negative or positive effects of ghost guns?
Call it whatever you want. People make this out to be an all or nothing problem with no inbetween (like most things in politics). There has to be SOME regulation and barrier to entry with firearms.
 

robtattoo

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Call it whatever you want. People make this out to be an all or nothing problem with no inbetween (like most things in politics). There has to be SOME regulation and barrier to entry with firearms.

Why?
There isn't with anything else.
 

BRTreedogs

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Call it whatever you want. People make this out to be an all or nothing problem with no inbetween (like most things in politics). There has to be SOME regulation and barrier to entry with firearms.
Yeah I've not read anything like that in the Bill Of Rights or the Constitution.

Maybe we should just make murder and hate crimes illegal. Ohh wait
 

MTWop

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Why?
There isn't with anything else.
False. Alcohol is restricted to 21, tobacco 18, age to enlist 18. Patients with certain psychiatric disorders should be screened: bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, felons, etc.
 

robtattoo

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False. Alcohol is restricted to 21, tobacco 18, age to enlist 18. Patients with certain psychiatric disorders should be screened: bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, felons, etc.

You er..... you ever have to do a thorough background check for a beer?

You do realize that all the issues listed there, in relation to firearms are already restricted, right? Is right there on the 4473.
 

260madman

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Call it whatever you want. People make this out to be an all or nothing problem with no inbetween (like most things in politics). There has to be SOME regulation and barrier to entry with firearms.
There’s plenty already that they don’t enforce.

Price a hot/stolen firearm and price a scary evil “ghost gun“ to build. Which one is cheaper?
 

260madman

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You er..... you ever have to do a thorough background check for a beer?

You do realize that all the issues listed there, in relation to firearms are already restricted, right? Is right there on the 4473.
He’s obviously never filled out a 4473. Must be 18 for a rifle/shotgun. Must be 21 for a pistol/handgun. Suppressors are extra scrutinized because they’re extra scary deadly along with SBRs. A brace? OMG murder machine!

No problems making me a felon but can’t prosecute felons on gun charges because it’s not fair there’s so many in prison already from a certain demographic.
 

BRTreedogs

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Imagine knowing the war on drugs has been happening for decades and you can still get anything you want by the end of the day, but then thinking a new law restricting 80% lowers is going to prevent criminals from possessing illegal weapons.

😂
 

hereinaz

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Call it whatever you want. People make this out to be an all or nothing problem with no inbetween (like most things in politics). There has to be SOME regulation and barrier to entry with firearms.
There is more than some regulation and barrier. I agree, regulation and barriers is important. In AZ you can buy and sell private party, but we don’t have the gun crime of Chicago.

The question was what problem has there heretofore been with “ghost guns”?

There is no problem large enough to regulate. The only thing this will do is limit law abiding. It will have zero effect on criminals, but an unnecessary cost to private citizens.
 

redcorn65

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Call it whatever you want. People make this out to be an all or nothing problem with no inbetween (like most things in politics). There has to be SOME regulation and barrier to entry with firearms.

You’ll sing a different tune when they come for something that concerns you. I didn’t own a bump stock and could care less about them but I donated to GOA and NAGR to fight the ban on them because I KNEW that it would lead to this type of thing. More regulation. It’s a slippery slope my friend. Eventually it will concern you and that is a promise.


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