FORMADILIOUS.........I'm calling you OUT!!

[Dobermann]

It doesn’t compete as a field rifle. First, metal chassis in the cold suck. Second, the bolt throw isn’t smooth as either of the others, and third a true pistol grip is not ideal for a field rifle that has any recoil at all.

Hi Form, can you expand on the aspect of pistol grips and recoil?

I know you've covered pistol grips previously in terms of bolt manipulation, but I can't recall recoil ...

 

[Formidilosus]

Hi Form, can you expand on the aspect of pistol grips and recoil?

I know you've covered pistol grips previously in terms of bolt manipulation, but I can't recall recoil ...

So, the full pistol grip creates a problem in that you either fully wrap the thumb around the back maintaining positive control and losing speed on racking, or you leave your thumb alongside the trigger finger side to make racking easier but lose almost all control from the trigger hand.


To see it, grab your rifle and with your shooting hand only, point it straight up into the air in front of you with a full grip. Now do the same but pull your thumb off the grip and have it pointed forward on the trigger finger side. Notice which is easier to control and hold the rifle.

 

[Lawnboi]

Pistol grips make operating the safety a little more cumbersome as well.

 

[Formidilosus]

Pistol grips make operating the safety a little more cumbersome as well.

Correct.

 

[BRTreedogs]

Pistol grips make operating the safety a little more cumbersome as well.

 

[Dobermann]

So, the full pistol grip creates a problem in that you either fully wrap the thumb around the back maintaining positive control and losing speed on racking, or you leave your thumb alongside the trigger finger side to make racking easier but lose almost all control from the trigger hand.


To see it, grab your rifle and with your shooting hand only, point it straight up into the air in front of you with a full grip. Now do the same but pull your thumb off the grip and have it pointed forward on the trigger finger side. Notice which is easier to control and hold the rifle.

Awesome ... that makes a lot of sense.

And so I'm I right in guessing that the flipside is that 'traditional' stocks, but with vertical grips solve both of these issues (or at least, are better than a full pistol grip either with thumb wrapped fully, or on the outside)?

 

[Formidilosus]

Awesome ... that makes a lot of sense.

And so I'm I right in guessing that the flipside is that 'traditional' stocks, but with vertical grips solve both of these issues (or at least, are better than a full pistol grip either with thumb wrapped fully, or on the outside)?

When gripped optimally, mostly yes.

 

[Mike Islander]

If you really wanted one....
View attachment 471475


I am on the hunt for the SWFA and TMKs tho.

TMKs are out there at almost reasonable prices. Hell no I won't say where.

 

[PantherCity]

Is the mag release still in front of the magazine? I had a howa mini 6.5 grendel and loved a lot about it, but everytime I carried it I dropped the magazine. It was so bad I had to sell it.

Yes, the mag release is up front, I haven’t carried it much yet, just shot it a couple times on my range, doesn’t seem horrible and I expected to hate the mag and bottom metal based on all the reviews I read. So far it’s not as bad as I was expecting. I cut the mag down to 5rds and tweaked the spring and it’s feeding 100% now. I considered the oregunsmithing hinged floorplate, but I’ll give the stock setup a chance first.


It’s currently at the smith getting cut to 16” and threaded. I was getting 2900+ with 8208 XBR with no pressure signs with the 22” tube, so I should still be 2700+ with the 16”.

It would stack the first few rounds then start walking down and left with heat, I’m hoping the shorter barrel will be a bit stiffer and I’ll bed it and hog out the forearm a bit more if it’s still walking. I don’t like waiting around for my barrel to cool.

I like the mini and the Stockys carbon VG enough that if it’s still walking, I’ll rebarrel it.


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[Formidilosus]

Yes, the mag release is up front, I haven’t carried it much yet, just shot it a couple times on my range, doesn’t seem horrible and I expected to hate the mag and bottom metal based on all the reviews I read.

Trim the mag release lever considerably and it removes the accidental drilling problem. If you hand carry the rifle you will eventually drop a mag or have it come unseated where it won’t feed- or at least everyone I know has had it happen.

It would stack the first few rounds then start walking down and left with heat, I’m hoping the shorter barrel will be a bit stiffer and I’ll bed it and hog out the forearm a bit more if it’s still walking. I don’t like waiting around for my barrel to cool.

That’s not a stiffer barrel issue, it’s an improperly stress relieved barrel issue. Cutting the barrel might remove the stress part, or part of it, or it might not. Just FWIW.

 

[Mike Islander]

Trim the mag release lever considerably and it removes the accidental drilling problem. If you hand carry the rifle you will eventually drop a mag or have it come unseated where it won’t feed- or at least everyone I know has had it happen.

Like on the 10-22. I trimmed mine flush. No more lost nags. Not like we need fast mag swaps on a hunting rifle.

 

[PantherCity]

Trim the mag release lever considerably and it removes the accidental drilling problem. If you hand carry the rifle you will eventually drop a mag or have it come unseated where it won’t feed- or at least everyone I know has had it happen.






That’s not a stiffer barrel issue, it’s an improperly stress relieved barrel issue. Cutting the barrel might remove the stress part, or part of it, or it might not. Just FWIW.

Thanks Formadillo I’ve read you say on a couple threads about properly stress relived barrels not walking, regardless of contour. My SS tikka lite barrel doesn’t, I can shoot that rifle till it’s sizzling and it’s the same poi.

I read a little about cryo, seems like snake oil, what are your thoughts?

I thought the chop might help, if not, time for a new tube.


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[Formidilosus]

I read a little about cryo, seems like snake oil, what are your thoughts?

I thought the chop might help, if not, time for a new tube.

Cryo might work. But for the cost a new barrel is a better bet, if the current barrel still walks.

 

[PantherCity]

I shot the rifle again this morning after getting it back from the smith, who cut it down to 16” & it is no longer walking! I think I can still get better groups but it is behaving much more consistently. I was getting 2775fps average MV with 24.5gr 8208 xBR and 77 TMK and no pressure signs and ~2moa groups.

I’m going to load a few 10rd sets with some lower charge weights and see if I can improve those groups. Probably drop back to 23gr and work up in .5 increments. I’ll be happy if I can keep my speed at 2700.

I am really enjoying this rifle. If I can get it to shoot up to snuff it will be a new favorite.

The bottom “metal” and mag are not giving me problems. I did shorten the magazine and modify the floorplate and floorplate retainer and it easily fits and feed 6rds and is flush with the bottom of the magwell. I had to notch the floorplate and it kind of protects the mag release. Also my mag release looks smaller from the factory than some of the pictures I’m seeing online, maybe Howa changed the length?

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[Smenning]

Regular T3x is what I/we all do. 77gr TMK or 88gr ELD-M. Most are shooting the 88’s.

Would you pass on a “regular” in stock to wait for SS model (.223) ?

 

[Formidilosus]

Would you pass on a “regular” in stock to wait for SS model (.223) ?

If you mean a blued barrel, no I wouldn’t necessarily wait for SS unless required.

 

[Rooggvc]

Would you pass on a “regular” in stock to wait for SS model (.223) ?

I passed on two stainless steel models at my local Scheels a week ago. When I realized a couple of days later how hard the Tikka .223's are to find, I called back. They had already sold them. My wife was awesome and called 6 different gun shops around my state. Finally one of the shops was able to locate 1 Tikka Stainless .223 from one of their distributors. Now I just have a 3.5 hour drive to go and get it. So if you have access to one I wouldn't pass it up.

 

[bojangles808]

If you mean a blued barrel, no I wouldn’t necessarily wait for SS unless required.

How much does going with the compact 20" barrel model affect things? Just shorten your range with the slower mv? Was thinking of putting a 223 build together for my son as a youth rifle but not sure about a full size. I already have a 6.5 in a bravo so was thinking a compact 223 might be a nice step between 22 and 6.5. I don;t reload fwiw and was probably going to shoot fusion or match bullets.

 

[Formidilosus]

How much does going with the compact 20" barrel model affect things? Just shorten your range with the slower mv? Was thinking of putting a 223 build together for my son as a youth rifle but not sure about a full size. I don;t reload fwiw and was probably going to shoot fusion or match bullets.

Most of us are using either 18 or 20” barrels now, and they’re trending towards shorter. Yes, the only thing that is effected by the shorter barrel is MV which translates to a bit shorter range for terminal effects. It isn’t enough to matter for nearly anyone.
I have used Fusions/Gold Dots to kill a few different animals, some of them a lot, out to just past 440 yards from 10.5” barreled 223’s- they killed fine. 18-20” isn’t even a worry until well past the point where people should probably not be shooting with any rifle.

 

[mt100gr.]

How much does going with the compact 20" barrel model affect things? Just shorten your range with the slower mv? Was thinking of putting a 223 build together for my son as a youth rifle but not sure about a full size. I already have a 6.5 in a bravo so was thinking a compact 223 might be a nice step between 22 and 6.5. I don;t reload fwiw and was probably going to shoot fusion or match bullets.

I love my compact T3x in .223. I actually regret not cutting it shorter than 20" (16" or 18") when I had it threaded. Definitely not losing enough to worry about in the velocity department for hunting with a 77tmk or similar. I am shooting UM loaded 77s since I have them, but will load it identically once I am out of that ammo. MV of 2700ish FPS keeps plenty of velocity at impact to well over 400yds.

If there's any chance you'll end up with a suppressor, the 20" is about as long as I'd want anyway.