Form struck someone’s nerve

[Dackdack]

So why are you on Rokslide thread about small calibers then, if a good ol' Remchester 3006 will do it all in your neck of the woods? Making an educated guess based on your critter line up, Region 6? And more importantly, why do you care what someone else uses for a rifle and cartridge combo?
I think the big issue that one should understand on this particular thread, is that there has been a guy misquoting and misrepresenting a bunch of information from the guys who have been there and done that and got all the tshirts, trying to generate traffic for his podcast and stay relevant. Too bad that JVB opted to go with his fan base letters instead of looking at all the information that is available.
I was especially disgusted with how hard he was sucking Steve's ass in the 22 ARC 22 Creedmoor in Africa podcast, versus how he went full Street Preacher when it was just himself on his podcast speaking to his congregation (no offense intended to legit preachermans that might read this...)

There is such a thing as guys who are hunters, and guys who are shooters, and guys who are hunters that shoot, and guys who are shooters that hunt.... Sounds like you know hunters, who own A rifle. Nothing wrong with that, just different motivations to get the most personal enjoyment they can from their recreational time.

I'm more of a hunter who shoots, in 7B. I don't even know how many rifles I have that fall into the category that I call "culturally appropriate" for hunting, but I can say that in the last 3 years I've killed 3 bull elk, and 3 bull moose, and of those 6 bulls four tipped over to a "pissant rifle".
Of those 3 bull elk, one shot with a 280AI and 150TTSX's, one fell to a 300wm with 180gr PSP's, and one fell from an 88 ELD m. All three quartering to me, all three were "rut swelled up muscle and hide", but the one that died the fastest was the one shot with the 88 ELD m from the Mouse Rifle. All 3 moose were immediately dead, at ranges of 151 yards to 352 yards. In fact, they all died MUCH faster than the multiples I have shot with a 264WM, 280AI, 300WM, and 300 Ultra using mono's and bonded bullets.

If it wasn't for internet forums and podcasts, I would still be shooting elk and moose every year with a 300 Ultra and TTSX's, and watching the light fade from their eyes minutes later when I walked up to them gasping their last breaths as they tried to hang onto the last of the air.


I much prefer stuff to die RFN when one of those nasty little pills hits the front half of anything.

I hunt region 7 and 3 mostly. I shoot a 6.5 PRC so I don’t shoot a cannon myself. I draw the line at what I am using.

If you hunt 7 and were solo would you honestly choose to pack a .22 arc or a .223 over something a little bigger?

 

[Dixie]

Fudd following this thread… or possibly after binge listening 1- 2 of the JVB or maybe the last Shoot 2 Hunt podcast

 

[Hoopleheader]

This is stupid. The debate is tired and annoying. The loud ones on both sides come off as giant, arrogant douches.

100%

Now where is your photographic evidence?

 

[Hnthrdr]

Reminds me, where was JVB on the Prop 127?


He make any comments on it or sit that one out?

Don’t really know who he is, but heck where were most of the big players?! Howl, CFRWM, and mostly just average joe hunters res and non res fought that one off, at least ole Steven was vocal about it. I know some of the big name orgs game big checks but my local archery range spent 50k… I honestly expected more out of a lot of the big players

 

[KHntr]

I hunt region 7 and 3 mostly. I shoot a 6.5 PRC so I don’t shoot a cannon myself. I draw the line at what I am using.

If you hunt 7 and were solo would you honestly choose to pack a .22 arc or a .223 over something a little bigger?

I hunt solo 90%+ of the time. I carried a 22 centerfire 100% of the season this year, starting with spring bears through to backpacking stone sheep trip, then Haida Gwaii, then a bull elk, then a bull moose. Predominantly a 223AI with 88 ELD m. Only variation was going to a 223 with 77TMK on whitetails, just to scratch a specific rifle itch...

Last fall I carried a 223AI, solo, on our 2 day moose season. Same as the year before. Same as this year. Killed a big tripalm/ten point in full on grizz country all on my lonesome, same as most years. 3 bull moose in 3 years, 88 ELD m, on a 2 day, highly restrictive antler tine season. Shots can be quick, at odd angles, at varying distances.
I own at least 5 or 6 (7? 10?) larger caliber rifles in "moose/elk appropriate" cartridges that are accurate, scoped, ready to go, but I'm completely confident in the effectiveness of the bullet I use to put animals on the ground faster with a 22 centerfire.
Of course, I could step up to a similar constructed bullet and run it through a larger chambered rifle, but I typically kill stuff inside 500 yards and I don't see any benefit that would outweigh the amount of meat loss that would occur, unless of course a heavier rifle that is louder, kicks harder, and burns more powder is going to bring me happiness on that particular day.

Every single time I step out the door, even walking in my driveway to get in my truck, I"m in grizzly country. A pair of sub adults licked up all the oats in my tack shed in November. That is all of 200m from my barbeque. My cartridge of choice this year was 223AI with an 88 ELDm, hunting solo. If I were of a need to kill something RFN, that was trying to bite me, based on the wound channels I have seen from 223AI-88ELDm-77TMK/243AI-105 Amax, I would pick a 22 centerfire every single time. Simply because I want the maximum amount of carnage I can inflict, and maybe, just maybe, I might get a chance at getting a second round off because its a lighter, faster rifle to handle with a shorter bolt throw and less recoil.
With a 300 Ultra or 45/70 or 300WM I'm only going to get one chance due to recoil, and I don't load those with anything that even comes close to the damage inflicted by an ELD m or TMK.

Even with a fringe hit on the edges, I have a lot more faith in a match bullet making a big football size hole in stuff and maybe touching something fatal around the edges, instead of poking a small hole in a straight line for feet of penetration, that HAS to punch something important to be effective.

One thing I have seen with my own eyes, after a couple + decades of punching mono's and bonded bullets into animals big and small, is that hard bullets kill stuff slower. Way slower.
Bullets like the Amax and ELD m, and TMK are decisively faster killers. If I'm betting my personal well being, or my kids well being on killing something as fast as possible, I damn sure am going to hedge my bets and go with what I KNOW kills stuff the fastest.
Oddly enough, I know quite a few guys that have been tagged by grizzlies to varying levels of scar tissue, and one thing they all have said, is that time slows waaaaay down when you are getting bit and clawed and slapped across the ground. 20 seconds can seem like a lifetime in that scenario, so I can't even imagine what 90 seconds would feel like when you are waiting for that hard bullet to finish what it started IF you hit organs.... Be the longest 3 minutes of the end of your life, if you just missed lung with a mono and only broke a leg bone while you waited for the bear to decide you aren't a risk anymore......

 

[MT_Wyatt]

Looks like his “part 2” bull got pulled from apple podcasts as well. Who knows why, but I sure do like to see that nonsense get retracted.