Federal Public Land at risk again!

As the recent state tax cuts really start to bite and the school districts keep voting down levies, you are going to see more of this. A large portion of Idaho school revenue comes from Idaho Endowment Land. That land is mandated by the state constitution to return the maximum financial return to the state. I'm not saying I agree with it, but that's how it's written.
I don’t think a lot of people here realize that. They also can’t currently sell state timberlands.
I get it to a point, except: 1) Idaho operates in the black so there is no deficit., 2) school levies are done at the county, not state level, so this is an apples versus oranges comparison, and 3) there are no limitations that I am aware of on what "maximizing financial return" means. Does building a high rise apartment, mall, or prison fit the bill?
Until now where they are predicting an almost $60M deficit which is in violation of the state constitution.

 
I get it to a point, except: 1) Idaho operates in the black so there is no deficit., 2) school levies are done at the county, not state level, so this is an apples versus oranges comparison, and 3) there are no limitations that I am aware of on what "maximizing financial return" means. Does building a high rise apartment, mall, or prison fit the bill?
No deficit yet… that’s coming next FY.
School levies are indeed conducted at the county or district level but most funding comes from the state. In fact, I think education may be the highest single line item in Idaho’s budget.
As for maximum return, you’d have to check with the land board and see what their definition is.
 
Here is another thing I bet a lot of folks don’t know. We aren’t guaranteed access to Endowment Lands. Idaho Fish and Game pays the state of Idaho for access to those 2.3 million acres.
While most Idaho endowment lands have traditionally been open to the public, endowment lands are managed to provide revenue, typically from timber sales and grazing leases, to fund for public schools, universities and state hospitals.

Fish and Game’s payments to the Department of Lands ensure those lands remain open to public access for hunting, fishing, trapping and other recreation. In other states, state-owned lands have been closed or leased to private parties for hunting access. Fish and Game renews the lease annually
 
Fish and Game’s payments to the Department of Lands ensure those lands remain open to public access for hunting, fishing, trapping and other recreation. In other states, state-owned lands have been closed or leased to private parties for hunting access. Fish and Game renews the lease annually

I think we're much more likely to lose access to state owned lands than to lose federal lands. Good idea to bring that up, very relevant.
 
Its ridiculous that the republican party in idaho is %100 responsible for the state budget deficit coming around the corner. The state legislature went against even the governors recommendation and passed a budget resulting in a deficit to the sum of at least 50 million dollars. During the fallout in the coming years, it will more than likely be much more.

Then they turn around and yell fire in a theater about selling federal lands to make up the difference? Obviously I trust the federal government track record more than these idiots being elected to the state senate.

Idaho needs to wake up and realize that just because you vote red doesn’t mean the status quo will be protected. We must elect officials who actually understand how money works. Not some rancher who has irresponsible promises of tax cuts.

On that note, Russ Fulcher is every bit as bad as Mike Lee. Hes a commercial real estate investor who consistently supports policies that are geared toward monetizing Idaho’s public lands that in no way benefit the commons. We cannot afford to fragment our public land any further as the consequences would be irreparable. These landscapes survive only through coherent, long-term, and consistent management, and time and again the federal government has proven to be the only entity capable of providing that at the necessary scale.
 
Its ridiculous that the republican party in idaho is %100 responsible for the state budget deficit coming around the corner. The state legislature went against even the governors recommendation and passed a budget resulting in a deficit to the sum of at least 50 million dollars. During the fallout in the coming years, it will more than likely be much more.

Then they turn around and yell fire in a theater about selling federal lands to make up the difference? Obviously I trust the federal government track record more than these idiots being elected to the state senate.

Idaho needs to wake up and realize that just because you vote red doesn’t mean the status quo will be protected. We must elect officials who actually understand how money works. Not some rancher who has irresponsible promises of tax cuts.

On that note, Russ Fulcher is every bit as bad as Mike Lee. Hes a commercial real estate investor who consistently supports policies that are geared toward monetizing Idaho’s public lands that in no way benefit the commons. We cannot afford to fragment our public land any further as the consequences would be irreparable. These landscapes survive only through coherent, long-term, and consistent management, and time and again the federal government has proven to be the only entity capable of providing that at the necessary scale.

$50 million budget deficit you say, you mean like the exact amount that they set aside for private school vouchers, in spite of the fact that 85% of the public wanted Little to veto the bill


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Of all the bullshit tax dollars go to subsidizing, public lands shouldn’t even come up as a target for fixed budgets!!!! Pisses me off to the greatest extent everything this s*** pops up. My god why are we so ignorant and blind as a populous


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$50 million budget deficit you say, you mean like the exact amount that they set aside for private school vouchers, in spite of the fact that 85% of the public wanted Little to veto the bill


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No the estimated incoming fiscal year has 50-60 million dollar budget deficit because of tax cuts to corporations. This deficit is expected to balloon moving forward.

Since you mentioned it, a conservative think tank is now recommending the state cut 250 million in funding to public schools while keeping that private education voucher program intact.

Its a f ing joke.
 
Its ridiculous that the republican party in idaho is %100 responsible for the state budget deficit coming around the corner. The state legislature went against even the governors recommendation and passed a budget resulting in a deficit to the sum of at least 50 million dollars. During the fallout in the coming years, it will more than likely be much more.

Then they turn around and yell fire in a theater about selling federal lands to make up the difference? Obviously I trust the federal government track record more than these idiots being elected to the state senate.

….
You do?

 
Yes I do, when states get control of previously held public domain it is majorly sold off or leased for mining/ energy interests. The only way to guarantee these lands stay public and continue to support wildlife is by ensuring that the federal government maintains ownership.

Another point worth mentioning is that many wildlife populations cross state boundaries through migration complicating shareholder interest.

I cant argue that the federal government is great with money but I do not think that is a reason to relinquish control. There are many options for frugality when looking at cost cutting measures. Personally, I do not think that national forests/BLM should be on the chopping block. Maybe try the defense budget first?

These lands hold value in their continuity and size. Continue to fragment them and soon you will be left with small “islands” of wildlife that would be a shell of their historical herd sizes.

Look if the federal government wants to practice responsible forestry and lease a mine/oilfield here and there I really cannot argue against it. But at the end of the day it should be apart of a larger, deliberate, and conservative plan to maintain these lands for everybodies use and interest.

The States do not have a history of maintaining these principles. The federal government does.
 
I asked google to compare the cost vs revenue of federally managed lands in 2024. This is what it said: feel free to fact check.

Federally managed lands generate substantial economic value, with recreation alone contributing over $100 billion and supporting millions of jobs (e.g., $128B/5M jobs in one report, NPS visitors spending $26.4B supporting 415k jobs in 2023), far exceeding direct federal management costs (around $1.7B for BLM, $3.8 requested for NPS in 2024) and even investments like the $2.8B GAOA funds for 2025, showing a significant return on investment through local revenue, taxes, and health benefits.

Economic Value Generated (Examples)
  • Outdoor Recreation: A $1.2 trillion sector relies on public lands, supporting 5 million jobs; one in five outdoor jobs depends on federal lands.
  • National Parks (2023 data): $26.4 billion spent in local communities, supporting 415,400 jobs, generating $55.6 billion in economic output.
  • BLM Lands (2024 report): $252.1 billion in economic output, 949,000 jobs supported by energy, recreation, timber, and grazing.
  • Return on Investment: Every $1 invested in national parks can provide over $10 in economic boost; parks generate far more in local revenue than their federal budgets.

Federal Spending (FY 2024/2025 Examples)
  • NPS Budget Request (FY 2024): $3.8 billion.
  • BLM Appropriations (FY 2024): $1.7 billion.
  • GAOA Investment (Proposed FY 2025):$2.8 billion for maintenance and infrastructure across federal lands.

Key Takeaway
Federal land management costs are a fraction of the vast economic activity they support, providing substantial returns through tourism, resource extraction, recreation, local business growth, and non-monetary benefits like health and conservation, making them significant economic assets
 
Also - I drove a 13 year old budget car and wore Wrangler pants this fall. I can't afford Cabelas. But I'd happily pay an access fee.

And, again, there’s a degree of devil’s advocate in what I’m saying here. I don’t like the concept of government land ownership (I’m a ‘forts and ports’ guy) but I believe that any attempt to ‘fix’ it would be much worse, if it involved sales or transfers to states or private interests. The leeches would show up to rent-seek and middleman the process to death. So, no.

But overcrowding is ultimately an economic problem, a ‘tragedy of the commons’ and when people complain about it, I’ve been there and seen the problem, that’s why I prefer paying for private access, I went back this year and it was even worse, but, again, if people are going to recognize the problem, let’s discuss solutions. Transfers to the state is basically piracy. Transfers to private hands would be a trainwreck. The only way to preserve any semblance of the western life people love is to recognize that the resource at issue isn’t just the animals, it’s also the land, and the majority of the land is involved is federal. Every US citizen is a stakeholder and hunters are the minority and I don’t for one minute think the average stakeholder (who probably doesn’t hunt but might hike) would push back against user fees for hunters. Hikers tend to not like hunters. They’d be happy to see us less.

Then if the state wanted to use those outrageous nonresident license fees to mitigate land access costs for residents, paid we could see a tag reallocation - residents might get fewer tags but they could quite easily do side work as guides for nonresidents (which probably pays enough to buy beef instead of shooting an elk….) and nonresidents would be thinned out by the costs of hunting - but even then, that’s not terrible. The people still paying would be the guy who actually saw the value in the experience and was willing to shoulder the costs of federal land administration. Hunters would gain a politically stronger voice in federal land management decisions (wolves, anyone?).

Residents might see fewer nonresidents. But those that came, would be paying land fees that trickled down through local work contracts. Higher quality federal land hunts could at least possibly ease pressure on private land hunts and mitigate price hikes. It wasn’t long ago we could find $5000 bull hunts. Two years ago I paid $6500. Now anything less than $10k is rare.

That doesn’t even begin to address the plagues of social media, which has implications far beyond hunting.

I’m all ears for better ideas. I’d genuinely like to see better experiences for everyone. I just don’t know how without moving to a pay to play model and honestly don’t understand why people hate that. For most of my life most of my hunting has been pay to play. Reality is, culture has changed. We’re a minority now, I know very few actual hunters in person anymore, but there’s less huntable land in the east and greater demand (in absolute numbers) across the west.

I don’t see how we fix this without paying for it. I just don’t. And in saying all that I deeply appreciate the idea of the western way of life and hunting. I just don’t know how to preserve it in the face of an increasing population where hunters are greater in number but lesser in political power.

Perhaps a hybrid system experiment could work where some reduced number of tags was available and nonresidents had to pay for federal access, to subsidize residents. But to actually reduce the crowding, that would have to involve reducing the tags overall, but that’s no worse than if CO created more ‘quality’ units with limited entry.

I am slightly hopeful that CO will be more huntable in the future hybrid draw system but don’t see it as a cure-all.

You've got an awful lot of strong fiscal opinions as it pertains to federal land management for a guy that can't afford to shop at Cabelas....
 
Yes I do, when states get control of previously held public domain it is majorly sold off or leased for mining/ energy interests. The only way to guarantee these lands stay public and continue to support wildlife is by ensuring that the federal government maintains ownership.
This right here is the problem. I'll take the risk and say what no one else is saying -- Land is SUPPOSED to be managed on a state by state level because it's easier to TAR AND FEATHER your governor than the president or the king of England.

But they have us chasing our tails. We all know the states are supposed to have more independent rights. 13 colonies founding fathers etc. But the federal government steamrolled that AND gave finance (the biggest land owners) invisible and completely criminal strings to the entire game and control everything. Now they're telling us to support state control of land but the STRINGS ARE ALL STILL ATTACHED.

Now everyone name a governor past or present and what body part he's controlled by.
 
When we visited Yellowstone I would have *HAPPILY* paid an extra $100 per person (or more, and there were six of us in the car) to have seen a less-crowded park.
You ain’t kidding.

When the park was “shut down” because of floods a few years back I told the wife to pack a bag we’re going to Yellowstone. Up in the north where the most flood damage was, we actually drove for 20 minutes without seeing another car. Every turnout had plenty of parking. Just a handful of people on any popular walking path. It was literally like going back 40 years in time. Very nice.

Of course we had to ruin it and stop down south where bathrooms were over run and quite embarrassing for a national park. Lol
 
Yes I do, when states get control of previously held public domain it is majorly sold off or leased for mining/ energy interests. The only way to guarantee these lands stay public and continue to support wildlife is by ensuring that the federal government maintains ownership.

Another point worth mentioning is that many wildlife populations cross state boundaries through migration complicating shareholder interest.

I cant argue that the federal government is great with money but I do not think that is a reason to relinquish control. There are many options for frugality when looking at cost cutting measures. Personally, I do not think that national forests/BLM should be on the chopping block. Maybe try the defense budget first?

These lands hold value in their continuity and size. Continue to fragment them and soon you will be left with small “islands” of wildlife that would be a shell of their historical herd sizes.

Look if the federal government wants to practice responsible forestry and lease a mine/oilfield here and there I really cannot argue against it. But at the end of the day it should be apart of a larger, deliberate, and conservative plan to maintain these lands for everybodies use and interest.

The States do not have a history of maintaining these principles. The federal government does.
I don't want to see a divestiture in public lands either, but using Idaho for an example they have sold less than 1k acres since 2008 while purchasing 54K acres. The vast majority of state land they have sold off happened over 100 years ago.
 
I don't want to see a divestiture in public lands either, but using Idaho for an example they have sold less than 1k acres since 2008 while purchasing 54K acres. The vast majority of state land they have sold off happened over 100 years ago.
So is your point that public land within Idahos borders is better protected by the state rather than the fed?

The gist Im getting at is that States do not have the required funding or infrastructure to support the amount of management needed. Above that, I think that our close neighbor to southeast is a good representation of what advocates for state ownership intend. Look at whats happened to Utahs state lands gifted by the fed and tell me that you honestly think Idaho will have a different future.

I dont understand how the state could manage these lands any better than the fed without developing them for monetization. I would rather not. That is the epitome of big government which is what republicans are supposed to be against.

This whole plot is chock full of irony and it stinks to high heaven.
 
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