Enough gun?

[IDVortex]

And ‘Merica Made (or owned)

It's honestly the .270 of calibers.

 

[schoofster]

Quality Boomer content

 

[TaperPin]

This entire thread is about being paranoid that the rest of use choose light bullets that fragment. You are projecting your insecurity and need to tell others what to do on to us, which was my original point in the post you quoted.

Given that I am now just repeating myself, discussion is clearly not possible. So, I will stop annoying others by perpetuating talking past one another further.

My old man was a pipeliner in AK in the late 70’s - everyone he hunted with all over the state had a 17 Remington. He’d laugh at us all saying if you can’t get within 250 yards you’re a schitt hunter and if you can’t shoot ‘em in the head at 250 you’re a schitt shooter. “All you need is a 25 gr bullet.” He wasn’t wrong.

You 223 guys are ridiculously over gunned.

 

[Tmac]

The reality is it is not a binary choice. Both the lighter weight but heavy for caliber fragmenting bullet and the larger caliber higher weight retaining bullet both work and work well when employed correctly. I use both and usually gravitate to mono’s for meat hunts, usually in a 270 Win or 280 Rem.

More likely to use a fragmenting bullet if after horns or in thick brush to up the odds of fast incapacitation. Often use an Accubond as well. Also shoot a couple 223 RSS types, and soon a 6mm ARC, all with fragmenting bullets. The damage done by a 77 gr. TMK is a real thing, to argue otherwise is to ignore facts.

 

[RMM]

I love it when the Toyota Prius (223) crowd says you don’t need a one ton truck to go to the grocery store - many of us simply enjoy driving a one ton.

 

[Flyjunky]

So fking tired of this discussion. There are many cartridges to use that have worked well for decades. If you want to shoot a 338 lapua, great. If you want to shoot a 223 great, shoot it. Can we be done with this stupid discussion now?

Shoot what you want and shoot it well.

 

[KenLee]

I'm an old half ass shooter and appreciate a lil "insurance" . I shoot 300wsm w 150 gr splatter bullets when near sharp creek/river banks, have gout flares or any other physical ailments at the time. Other times, I shoot baby calibers. It's all good!

 

[Shraggs]

“Last I heard – 1,000 ft lbs was a good “minimal” number for deer out yonder. Elk? 1,500 ft lbs – not at the muzzle – but down range at impact.

I’m NOT putting down anyone’s choice of cartridge. I am saying, there are cartridges that meet (& exceed) those numbers, downrange where it really counts. Insurance. We owe that to the game we hunt. It’s called Ethics – said respectfully.”

These discussions come up often, what you wrote above seems the basis of your objection and concern you expressed —- is the problem and the myth. There is no data that actually supports that. Oh people have written this in gun rags years ago. It’s now accepted as fact, but unproven. In fact, it’s been proven wrong before it the myth existed. Many men and animals have fallen to spears before arrows.

If you’ve read some of the threads, you’ve already seen evidence that it’s been proven. I think the sooner people let go of ft pounds myth moral dilemma will go away.

I’m not old enough to remember the flat Earth debate but once the earth was sailed around truth prevailed.

Folks can shoot what they want as far as I am concerned my 308 with Accubonds worked fine, my 223 with highly fragmenting bullets works significantly better and with a significant extension in leathal range.

 

[eoperator]

My 1000 hp prius gets to the store faster than your 1000hp 1-ton.


Easier to park too.

This might be true but my 1-ton has alot more energy and knock down power, I've seen this many times while hitting deer.

 

[KenLee]

This might be true but my 1-ton has alot more torque or knock down power, I've seen this many times while hitting deer.

Truth!
Hit a good buck on my Harley. Deer got up and ran. Harley was trashed and left on a flatbed. I left in an ambulance. Buddies looked for deer 2 days and didn't find any sign of it.
When I hit deer in my old GMC, I always drive off with deer in the back.

 

[JBradley500]

The worst part about these threads is after a while I can't tell when people are being sarcastic, being trolls, or truly believe in their BS.

 

[IDVortex]

The worst part about these threads is after a while I can't tell when people are being sarcastic, being trolls, or truly believe in their BS.

I'm being sarcastic and a troll. I'm bored.

 

[wind gypsy]

You are wrong . A 3006 with 178eldm will make wound channel substantially larger than a 108eldm from a 243. If you belive otherwise you should invest time and money into ordinance gel as I have to see for yourself.

I’ve moved way smaller with what I primarily shoot but it does seem like the facts get stretched on some of this.

Another example- I’ve seen the ballistic gel stuff from hornady LE site posted to show the wounding expectations for some of the smaller bullets. Reading this site I’d expect the 308 165 CX gel performance to be pedestrian but it is not..

165 gr CX™ - Hornady Law Enforcement

...

www.hornadyle.com

 

[Jason Snyder]

Shoot what you want to shoot. Shoot it well. If you don’t, practice till you do. Know your limitations and stay within them.

And, be nice to people.

 

[eoperator]

I’ve moved way smaller with what I primarily shoot but it does seem like the facts get stretched on some of this.

I agree, if someone was to make a statement such as "the wound made by .243/108 is sufficient to kill" I would agree completely but to say it makes a wound the same as a 3006/178 is false.

Another example- I’ve seen the ballistic gel stuff from hornady LE site posted to show the wounding expectations for some of the smaller bullets. Reading this site I’d expect the 308 165 CX gel performance to be pedestrian

I am not an educated professional on the subject but I have shot >100 bullets into gel and spent an embarrassing amount of time reading on terminal balistics.

From what I have seen from monos into gel is they create a large temporary channel with minimal shredded/pulverized permanent cavity such as the 165cx you mention even though it looks impressive. Hammer bullets posted a video of their 199 vs 215 berger where they bragged up the "permanent" channel made by their bullet when most of that impressive channel was temporary or stretch cavity that might be no more than bloodshot or bruising depending on velocity.

 

[Fireflyfishing]

I love it when the Toyota Prius (223) crowd says you don’t need a one ton truck to go to the grocery store - many of us simply enjoy driving a one ton.

This post wins!

 

[Bluefish]

I have come to the conclusion after watching many of these threads, that cartridge is not all that critical, yet what bullet and how fast is it going at impact is what gets the job done.

Take my 35 whelen, 200g at 2700, lots of energy, yet probably can’t make an ethical kill at 500 yards. Bullet will be going too slow. Yet my subsonic 45-70 could do it if you can deal with the drop and time of flight. It has less than half the energy at the muzzle of the 35W.

Keep a bullet above its minimum velocity to work and use the right construction, pretty much any caliber will get the job done. After that it’s about regulations, recoil, and what range you want to be effective.

Back to the Prius vs 1 ton analogy, when the store is 50 miles away, and gas is $5/gal, is it worth driving the 1 ton?

 

[Billy Goat]

Back to the Prius vs 1 ton analogy, when the store is 50 miles away, and gas is $5/gal, is it worth driving the 1 ton?

It buys you a bigger weiner.

 

[eoperator]

Back to the Prius vs 1 ton analogy, when the store is 50 miles away, and gas is $5/gal, is it worth driving the 1 ton?

This would be highly dependent on how many groceries need to be hauled home. If your wife buys groceries like mine 2 or 3 trips would be required with the prius because of the small payload capacity.

 

[Shō[t]gun]

There’s an unexplained anomaly called the “creedmoor dip”, potentially a weight savings tactic by backcountry hunters.