Enough gun?

[IDVortex]

Thank you for your choice to NOT make 223 and 6mm creed ammo harder for me to buy.
Carry on.

Well, go to a 22creed and you won't have to worry about 6mm.

 

[SloppyJ]

I was the OP. In my 30's I blew up my right shoulder. I owned nothing but magnums starting with 3's and a few 270s and varmint guns.

I bought a 6.5-06 from Tannel. It was a hammer and weighed 12 pounds. I could shoot it without pain.

I called Sierra for load data and they suggested pushing a 142smk at 2900fps for best accuracy and mentioned it had a lot of kills under it's belt.

The rifle was a hammer with the 142. Deer season came and I took a buck with it. It literally folded where it stood. I wasn't sure how I felt about shooting an elk with it, but I had no other choice. I smoked a bull with it and it too folded at the shot.

I have since killed more elk than the internet will believe with a 28-2900 fps 140 class bullet.

Ive pushed a 100gr tsx through a Roosevelt at 400 measured yards. I've watched a lot of elk die and in my experience the guy with great skill and a bullet that upsets most around 6-8" and will travel at least 12-14" is going to kill stuff.

It may not bleed a lot, but it is dead. Very dead and plenty soon.

We've all been the OP. I'd venture to bet that unless you started hunting when covid hit, that you grew up thinking bigger was better. It's embedded in everything that has ever been taught about hunting.

 

[Marbles]

We've all been the OP. I'd venture to bet that unless you started hunting when covid hit, that you grew up thinking bigger was better. It's embedded in everything that has ever been taught about hunting.

This. 223 was a poodle shooter; 30-06 was the bare minimum for hunting in Alaska; the 270 shot light bullets and was too small for an ethical hunter to use on anything but deer; a 375 H&H was a good place to start on big bears and 338 win mag was for wimps, but I really liked a coworkers 458 Lott; Etc.

Those are all opinions I held not too long ago. Then I sat down and decided to prove I was right, now I carry a 223 bolt gun in country with bears; came across some brown bear tracks last weekend that my entire foot fit into without touching the edges, of course I have pathetic little size 9-10 feet, so that is not necessarily a "big bear."

If I was not able to pick my bullets, I would certainly opt for a larger caliber. But, being able to pick my bullet, I will go for a smaller caliber.

To the OP, @Billy Goat covered it well with the vehicle comparison (and less wordy than what I first typed). Energy does not kill, energy transfer kills. Energy transfer is driven by the projectile, this is why an arrow can kill, or a baseball bat. Energy transfer to vital organs will kill more efficiently than energy transfer to the entire organism (why 120,000ish ft-lbs of a vehicle going 35 mph is not instantly lethal in all cases, of course that energy transfer is quite a bit more complicated than just the KE number as well).

Edit: Last point, it is KE, not energy. Energy covers a significantly broader range to include momentum, temperature, gravity, magnetism, Etc. Energy transfer applies to all of these.

 

[Reburn]

Well, go to a 22creed and you won't have to worry about 6mm.

In due time my friend. Need to shoot out some barrels first.

 

[JohnJohnson]

I learned a few things

Last I heard – 1,000 ft lbs was a good “minimal” number for deer out yonder. Elk? 1,500 ft lbs – not at the muzzle – but down range at impact.

These two statements contradict each other. To put it bluntly I don't think you ever learned how bullets work or how they kill things. And no, it doesn't matter if you've killed a lot of animals. Much like someone who has driven their car for 200,000 miles doesn't necessarily understand anything about how the engine works.

As others have said, it's like groundhog day around here with these posts/threads. And it's almost always from someone in the 60+ year old age bracket.

 

[TaperPin]

I love it when the Toyota Prius (223) crowd says you don’t need a one ton truck to go to the grocery store - many of us simply enjoy driving a one ton.

 

[Marbles]

I love it when the Toyota Prius (223) crowd says you don’t need a one ton truck to go to the grocery store - many of us simply enjoy driving a one ton.

Yes, but when the one ton truck crowed says you must have a one ton to drive to the grocery store ethically/safely, well that is idiocy. And to be clear, that is what the OP is saying.

Confusing what you enjoy with what is needed, and telling others they "need" what you enjoy as a result is asinine.




Note, the words asinine and idiocy apply to the ideas/arguments, not the person making the arguments.

 

[roadrunner]

I can't post my opinion.

It will anger certain people...

 

[eightyeight mag]

Happy .223/Creedmoore Month!!

 

[TaperPin]

Yes, but when the one ton truck crowed says you must have a one ton to drive to the grocery store ethically/safely, well that is idiocy. And to be clear, that is what the OP is saying.

Confusing what you enjoy with what is needed, and telling others they "need" what you enjoy as a result is asinine.




Note, the words asinine and idiocy apply to the ideas/arguments, not the person making the arguments.

Lightly constructed bullets that come apart are as old as my great great great grandfather and the .22 Savage Hipower and all the other .257” and 243” calibers since - they have always killed things, but for over 100 years and millions of animals killed every year, many people with good judgement seeing animals killed right next to each other with different cartridges, don’t choose to do it that way.

As much as the current crop of asinine spreading kids thinks energy is a figment of the imagination, it’s a measure of work - the amount and type of work is dependent on the bullet, but no bullet can do more work than the energy available. For those of us that like a bullet that holds together, the 1000 and 1500 ftlb rules of thumb have worked well.

If you like to use light bullets that fragment, then do it and stop being so paranoid that the rest of us don’t choose to go that way.

 

[Billy Goat]

Happy 223./Creedmoore Month!!

This is hilarious, even as a RSS supporter.

 

[Billy Goat]

I love it when the Toyota Prius (223) crowd says you don’t need a one ton truck to go to the grocery store - many of us simply enjoy driving a one ton.

My 1000 hp prius gets to the store faster than your 1000hp 1-ton.


Easier to park too.

 

[JohnJohnson]

If you like to use light bullets that fragment, then do it and stop being so paranoid that the rest of us don’t choose to go that way.

It's really weird to say this in a thread about why the OP thinks those lighter bullets/cartridges are unethical. I think it's called "crybullying". Where someone says something inflammatory knowing it will get a response, then acts like the people disagreeing are persecuting them.

 

[fwafwow]

My 1000 hp prius gets to the store faster than your 1000hp 1-ton.


Easier to park too.

It’s pointless. He’s the best troll/gas-lighter in here - at the moment.

 

[Billy Goat]

It’s pointless. He’s the best troll/gas-lighter in here - at the moment.

I call it inspiration...

 

[Marbles]

If you like to use light bullets that fragment, then do it and stop being so paranoid that the rest of us don’t choose to go that way.

This entire thread is about being paranoid that the rest of use choose light bullets that fragment. You are projecting your insecurity and need to tell others what to do on to us, which was my original point in the post you quoted.

Given that I am now just repeating myself, discussion is clearly not possible. So, I will stop annoying others by perpetuating talking past one another further.

 

[IDVortex]

My 1000 hp prius gets to the store faster than your 1000hp 1-ton.


Easier to park too.

My volt is 1025hp and gets there faster then your prius.

 

[fwafwow]

This entire thread is about being paranoid that the rest of use choose light bullets that fragment. You are projecting your insecurity and need to tell others what to do on to us, which was my original point in the post you quoted.

Given that I am now just repeating myself, discussion is clearly not possible. So, I will stop annoying others by perpetuating talking past one another further.

No. Some of us are cheering that you might be able to get a discussion going in which a logical point is addressed, as opposed to being met with some yarn about the knowledge he has always had and is happy we are starting to develop at his knee.

 

[Billy Goat]

My volt is 1025hp and gets there faster then your prius.

Only if it's lighter with more traction.

 

[fwafwow]

My volt is 1025hp and gets there faster then your prius.

And ‘Merica Made (or owned)