Covid got me good

[Marbles]

As a quick follow up, for those who have difficulty finding things with Google, the law in question is The National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act.

Ok, I'm really out now.

 

[Sam Colt]

Anyway, I'm out... Ok, I'm really out now.

I think what he's saying is that we've officially lost our Marbles.

 

[skywalkr]

There are 2 things that pretty much every person on earth can do to help prevent most chronic diseases and at the same time reduce the severity of complications from the China Flu and other sickness.

1. Eat healthy

2. Exercise

This has been true since the beginning of humanity, but people refuse to do it. It's easier to pop a pill & get a shot & sit on your ass in front of the TV while patting themselves on the back. Next comes a post on SM to virtue signal & vax shame. That same person will look out the window at a guy jogging without a mask on & say he's the problem.

If the government's goal truly was "it's for your health" then they would promote a healthy lifestyle. But there's no control or money in it for them or big pharma.

It's almost like the government doesn't already have physical activity guidelines and nutritional guidelines according to you. They actually do have those things, promote them, and they are really pretty solid but people ignore them. Just like doctors tell patients they should lose weight because they are obese but they still ignore that. This has been happening for decades.

I'm not sure why anyone would make this an either or though, you can eat healthy, exercise, and get vaccines if you really want to stay healthy.

What you can't do if you are morbidly obese is achieve a healthy body weight in a matter of months. It takes education, guidance, and discipline. Solving the obesity epidemic is far more complex than "eat less, move more". If it really was that simple it wouldn't be an epidemic.

What you can do if you are morbidly obese is start those health promoting activities while also getting a vaccine that is effective in a very short period of time and will greatly increase your probability of staying out of the hospital should you become infected.

 

[Crowmangler]

They literally have a website that shows you what to put on your plate.

You can lead a horse to water...

This is true. But some obscure website that no one ever looks at is not really "promoting" it.
For 2+ years almost every person on TV harped on about only these 2 things: masks & the vax. Both of which, many people feel, turned out to be basically worthless. (Don't start on the vax.. you won't change anybody's mind at this point).

At every press briefing, PSA, etc. why not say "Hey folks ... wear a mask, get the vax but if you ALSO eat healthy & exercise it will help you in many other ways. Here's all the ways it will benefit you now & in the long run....". Imagine if they pushed this as much as the mask / vax Nazi's did. Think about how much better off the whole country would be after 2 years of a healthy lifestyle.

BTW, there are plenty of government websites that say "don't do drugs, they're bad for you". Yet this same government allows these drugs pour in across a wide-open border. DEA & LE know who & where the drugs come from but do little to nothing to stop it.

 

[KitsapDan]

Cite actual studies (not opinions on studies). I have read the studies myself (I don't need someone to tell me what they mean). What you chose to cite, very clearly demonstrates that you lack the ability to interpret data for yourself.


Provider reporting to VEARS is mandatory (and as already pointed out, codified in law, which is publicly available for any 7 year old with an internet connection). Anyway, keep telling me how you need to bring a rifle to full draw before shooting anything and how bow hunting should be banned because the bullets bows shoot are less humane.

Data on the vaccine shows that people who get it have lower all cause mortality than those who do not. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7043e2.htm

Note, reasonable people consider this an anomaly in the data (though the same anomaly appears with flu vaccines), no one reasonable is arguing that getting a COVID vaccine will reduce an individuals risk of mortality from other (non-COVID) causes. But, it certainly makes claims of increased mortality from the vaccine ludicrous.

Anyway, I'm out. The Dunning-Kruger effect is clearly at play.

I guess his own D-K really hit hard. I put up numerous links to damage caused, and narrative proven incorrect, and this is what I get?

1) I put up plenty of “evidence” but I’m taken to task for the opinions of doctors actually analyzing the quality of a study. As if the fact that a study is published means “the science is settled” I guess? Sadly the esteemed journal The Lancet jumped at, and later had to retract a study by “Surgisphere” as it was completely made up. Elsevier, another large publisher of medical studies, actually withdrew at least one study without comment after publication. No erroneous data, I guess the pressure to pull it was too great.

Those running around screaming “peer reviewed” have no understanding what that means. Although not in formal medical science, Peter Boghosian et al got numerous papers published that were absolute BS, just go show if the narrative was “correct”, anynumber of people would embrace it.

2) VAERS — there is absolutely no gun pointed at the heads of MD’s who do not report on the system. However there is plenty of institutional pressure and financial disincentive to do so. I have not even bothered to check, but I’ll venture our lost @Marbles would be hard pressed to find docs who have been penalized for not entering data in VAERS.


I count myself among the fortunate. I’m retired with plenty of time on my hands, and I’m plenty curious about the ‘rona. In the very early days, literally before Nancy Pelosi was standing in Chinatown calling Trump a racist for wanting to shut down borders as she told people to come out to eat, I was paying attention to the YouTube channel “PeakProsperity”.

Chris Martensen, a former scientist/businessman with a PhD in pathology started spending almost an hour a day on the ‘rona. As more was reported, he analyzed and reported more. He was the first to discuss vitamin supplements (particularly Quercetin, Zinc, D, Selenium & C) as well as HCQ and IVM before they became MSM whipping boys. Chris was gathering & had the scientific training to dissect every study that looked meaningful that was published around the world. I never missed an episode. Still don’t.

Because of his work, I was as pumped on vitamins as one could be, especially D which an early study indicated was critical to positive hospital outcomes. I also went out and bought the dreaded horse paste. Read the MSDS for the one I got, too.

While our alphabet agencies were banning use of ivermectin (a drug that is on the WHO list of essential drugs and has had over a billion doses dispensed), I knew it was BS. Too much money & politics in play to ever allow such a cheap fix.

People are welcome to disagree with me, and I encourage a hearty debate. What I just got was a “drive by shooting” that missed by a mile, and the perp ran away. The last time someone did that to me was a politician at a city council meeting during break, and I publicly embarrassed him for it as well.

It’s taken well over a year for ACTUAL data to begin to be released. It took over a year for insurance companies to report results publicly that people are dying well beyond expected historical numbers. I expect a lot more to come out as the courts have forced OUR public agencies to actually do their jobs.

 

[fmyth]

This is true. But some obscure website that no one ever looks at is not really "promoting" it.
For 2+ years almost every person on TV harped on about only these 2 things: masks & the vax. Both of which, many people feel, turned out to be basically worthless. (Don't start on the vax.. you won't change anybody's mind at this point).

At every press briefing, PSA, etc. why not say "Hey folks ... wear a mask, get the vax but if you ALSO eat healthy & exercise it will help you in many other ways. Here's all the ways it will benefit you now & in the long run....". Imagine if they pushed this as much as the mask / vax Nazi's did. Think about how much better off the whole country would be after 2 years of a healthy lifestyle.

BTW, there are plenty of government websites that say "don't do drugs, they're bad for you". Yet this same government allows these drugs pour in across a wide-open border. DEA & LE know who & where the drugs come from but do little to nothing to stop it.

It doesn't help that the mainstream media outlets are putting morbidly obese models in the spotlight and on magazine covers. This model was on the cover of Cosmo magazine. They are promoting obesity, the second leading preventable cause of death in the US.

 

[Hoodie]

For 2+ years almost every person on TV harped on about only these 2 things: masks & the vax.

At every press briefing, PSA, etc. why not say "Hey folks ... wear a mask, get the vax but if you ALSO eat healthy & exercise it will help you in many other ways. Here's all the ways it will benefit you now & in the long run....".

Covid-19 death rates 10 times higher in countries where most adults are overweight, report finds | CNN

The risk of death from Covid-19 is about 10 times higher in countries where more than half of the population is overweight, according to a report released Wednesday by the World Obesity Forum.

www.cnn.com

Can weight loss help protect against Covid-19? | CNN

In the holiday season, when the average American can easily pack on a few pounds, experts say there is another reason to pay attention to your weight: Covid-19.

www.cnn.com

Why losing weight might protect you from Covid-19 - CNN Video

More than 40% of adults in the United States are obese. CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta explains why obesity is one of the top underlying health conditions associated with Covid-19 deaths.

www.cnn.com

Obesity leads to more severe Covid-19 disease, study finds

The coronavirus pandemic has brought countries to a standstill. In many places, as countries reopen, Covid-19 cases are on the rise. Follow here for the latest.

www.cnn.com

Again, 30 seconds or so of scanning the Google results from "CNN obesity COVID mortality." Every major news network has covered this. Everyone in America with a TV or computer is aware that being fat puts you at increased risk.

It just turns out that it's much simpler and more immediately effective to give a fat person a shot than it is to get them to start eating 5+ servings of fruits and vegetables a day and doing 150-300 minutes of moderate exercise a week (which are the government's recommendations for all Americans). Presumably if they were generally enthused about those things, they wouldn't be fat in the first place.


If you're going to suggest that something isn't being reported on, use a search engine first to see if you can find any reports. Acting like the risks of obesity have been swept under the rug, or vaccine complications haven't been covered in the news is silly.

 

[Marbles]

That’ll be the end of my rona posts in this thread

=lie

Anyway, I'm out.

=I'm listening, but done commenting. So, post away, I'll keep reading.

 

[KitsapDan]

=lie


=I'm listening, but done commenting. So, post away, I'll keep reading.

Wow. I’m dealing with a true man-child.

 

[Crowmangler]

If you're going to suggest that something isn't being reported on, use a search engine first to see if you can find any reports. Acting like the risks of obesity have been swept under the rug, or vaccine complications haven't been covered in the news is silly.

The fact that every one of your links are from CNN tells me that we probably aren't going to agree on much

 

[doc holiday13]

Note, reasonable people consider this an anomaly in the data (though the same anomaly appears with flu vaccines), no one reasonable is arguing that getting a COVID vaccine will reduce an individuals risk of mortality from other (non-COVID) causes. But, it certainly makes claims of increased mortality from the vaccine ludicrous.

For starters you could stop calling it a vaccine.. At best you could call it a therapuetic... Its very inline with the Flu shot.. Don't believe me? Read the FDA submission that all the pharma's submitted

 

[Rick M.]

It's funny how some consider facts as misinformation even when they know it's truth, just because it doesn't match the narrative that they subscribe to.

Can you provide any examples to qualify this statement? Especially the "facts as misinformation" bit. It sounds catchy, but lacks substance. I'm not talking about a one-off article from a highly political source, either. I'm talking about actual peer-reviewed data from trusted sources. There really is no "narrative". There are those who accept facts, and those who pretend they don't exist because they are at odds with one's political identity.

Can you imagine if the government and MSM put out the same kind of information and airtime on the deaths and serious health complications from the vaccine as they do for the virus?

They do. It's in the datasets that I provided. I know the data I linked aren't Facebook memes of butchered "statistics", but they are actual data, composed by hundreds of scientists (listed in the research). But again, some see evidence and real data and decide to plug their ears and put their head in the sand. If you look at actual, factual data and decide to pretend it isn't there, well, a reasonable argument is hopeless. It's all too easy to just claim that "the real data" isn't being released. Like wtf does that even mean? What do these organizations and scientists all over the world have to gain from lying to you? Are you truly that gullible?

No, we're not going to see all those facts anytime soon.

Wrong. We have that data. One must only decide to read it.

nobody knows how safe it really is, because it's only been used/tested less than two years now.

Wrong again. We have the data. JHU, CDC, WHO, state DoH, et al. Again, read the research. Or simply admit that you trust Fox News, Facebook, and podcasters more than the world's leading body of knowledge on disease. Thousands of scientists vs. a secretly vaccinated news anchor with a political agenda.

And just to be clear, my own mother went into the hospital four days after her second Pfizer shot and died a few days later. She went from fully functional and active to dead in less than 10 days after getting that second shot. And I personally know of two others that died very soon after getting that second shot.

I'm truly sorry to hear about your mother. Seriously. However, these are just more personal anecdotes being tallied as actual truths and facts. This is not how science works. Isaac Newton didn't just tell everyone about his experience watching an apple fall and say "I know calculus exists, I saw it". He proved it, and had it verified by other scientists all over the world. There is absolutely nothing about "the second shot" that kills people. I've seen dozens of social media posts claiming the same thing about a close relative suddenly dying after getting the vaccine, yet the data doesn't support these claims and not one of these individuals have provided any evidence to the contrary. I'd love to see evidence on any and all of these claims, but it won't happen. Same for the folks who constantly claim Covid-19 is harmless, and end up dead, and then out of sheer embarrassment, family members claim that "the hospital killed them" or that it was "pneumonia". It's embarrassing.

Here's some actual data:

"More than 553 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through February 22, 2022. During this time, VAERS received 12,775 preliminary reports of death (0.0023%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine."
source

0.0023% incidence rate of death after receiving the vaccine. Doesn't really match all the personal anecdotes of every Tom, Dick, and Harry making claims that a family member died from it, does it? I'm not calling you a liar, either, I'm just pointing out that many people make the same claims as you, yet the research absolutely does not support these claims. Either way, complication and death incident rates from Covid-19 itself are much higher than that of the vaccine, but let's keep that hush hush.

Furthermore:
"During October–November, unvaccinated persons had 13.9 and 53.2 times the risks for infection and COVID-19–associated death, respectively, compared with fully vaccinated persons who received booster doses, and 4.0 and 12.7 times the risks compared with fully vaccinated persons without booster doses."
source

So, let's do an experiment. Let's say you need to cross a river full of crocodiles. Crossing at point A gives you a 0.0023% risk of being eaten. Crossing at point B gives you a 1.0% chance of being eaten. You have chosen to cross at point B. Why?

But I will still never take those jabs, even though I did get a flu shot this winter.

So you trust the flu vaccine (which is tweaked every year), but not the Covid-19 vaccine? Come on, dude. This is one hundred percent political for you. You don't really think the vaccine is unsafe, you've just been handed an opinion to spread around to anyone who will listen, and it's become part of your identity.

I encourage you (and everyone else) to take just two weeks off of social media, mainstream news, and outrage-baiting podcasts. The stuff you get on local TV just isn't news anymore, and no one should expect fact-based reporting from Fox, CNN, or any of the the other mainstream "news" outlets. Make an honest attempt to form your own opinions, and challenge those opinions. Make sure they hold up to scrutiny. If folks just started thinking for themselves, we'd be in a much better world.

 

[doc holiday13]

I work in healthcare, and have for about 20 years, plus some ex phys education before that. As far back as my memory allows, eating better and exercising more has been absolutely promoted. The details have changed from the exercise and various nutrition fads, but "eat better, exercise more" has literally not changed in the last 30 years.

The fact that *most* people don't do it doesn't mean it hasn't been recommended, consistently, for decades.

Do we harp on eating healthy and exercise the same way that getting the COVID shot has been harped on? Because until we start shaming people for not doing it the same way people were shamed for not getting the COVID shot we're lying to ourselves about truly caring.

Now... I certainly wouldn't shame someone if they were physically unable to exercise due to some limitation, BUT we can control what we put in our belly.

 

[Sam Colt]

My grandfather worked with a lot of asbestos in the shipyard. The data said it was safe.
My mom used to dust us all liberally with baby powder. The data said it was safe.
I sprayed a metric crap-ton of Roundup on the ranch. The data said it was safe.

Until it wasn't.

Opah - keep fighting! Hope you're back on your feed and tearing up the pasture soon.

 

[*zap*]

I was down hard for weeks also....no hospitalization thou, get well soon.

 

[Rick M.]

There are 2 things that pretty much every person on earth can do to help prevent most chronic diseases and at the same time reduce the severity of complications from the China Flu and other sickness.

1. Eat healthy

2. Exercise

This has been true since the beginning of humanity, but people refuse to do it. It's easier to pop a pill & get a shot & sit on your ass in front of the TV while patting themselves on the back. Next comes a post on SM to virtue signal & vax shame. That same person will look out the window at a guy jogging without a mask on & say he's the problem.

If the government's goal truly was "it's for your health" then they would promote a healthy lifestyle. But there's no control or money in it for them or big pharma.

While this is most certainly true, I'm failing to see your point. Are you saying that everyone can just eat well and be fit, and then we can cast aside modern medicine?

What does your point of view mean for an infant? You can't crossfit straight out of the womb, can you? Does that mean infants and children shouldn't receive Hepatitis B, DTaP, Tdap, IPV, MMR, and Varicella vaccinations? Should we plunge our society back into the dark ages of infant mortality rates now that we have guidelines on diet and exercise?

Should a cancer patient just eat more chickpeas and do some squats, and dismiss any attempt at rad therapy, chemotherapy, or any of the myriad other forms of cancer treatment?

If I do my daily workout routine and have my chicken breast, should I not go to a trauma center if I end up in a terrible car accident? After all, just being fit and eating well should protect me, right? Who needs life-saving trauma surgery when I can plank for three minutes?

How about a soldier dying on the battlefield? Should they pass on morphine because they've rucked for months on end and are in prime physical condition? I mean they're dying anyhow, why ease their passage?

Who needs medicine? It's not like men used to die from a mere toothache!

Or are we just cherry-picking acceptable uses of modern medicine as it befits us at any given point in time, so long as it doesn't interdict our political ideology?

Yes, people need to eat well and exercise, but that has nothing to with getting vaccinated. Nothing whatsoever. And the government does attempt to promote a healthy lifestyle, so I'm not sure what that last quip was meant to prove or accomplish.

 

[*zap*]

I was down hard for weeks also....no hospitalization thou, get well soon.

Let me give some details, maybe it can help someone.

This coming Sunday is 6 weeks. first 3 days was tired/sore....then it got bad, just wore out and burning sore throat. After the end of the second week I felt better then started to have discomfort in upper chest if I breathed very deep and was getting winded if I did much. Stayed in bed/home on advice of a nurse friend. That got better in the forth week, still stayed home. Today I feel somewhat better and the breathing issues are gone but I have not been very active. Gonna go and get some running around done and go the the firearm range. No workouts for the last 5 1/2 weeks and I lost some weight/muscle mass....65 yoa/ 6" and 190#, quit smoking in 2012 after many years and my aerobic capacity was good when this started plus my diet has been very good for the last few years and the last 5 years I have been working out very hard after 30 years of not doing much in that area. I took zero meds and never went to the doctor. Day 4 thru 12 was the worst....had zero appetite but the discomfort from deep breathing was the most disconcerting issue although day 4-12 I was pretty out of it and had a friend coming over daily to check on me/bring stuff I needed.

 

[Hoodie]

The fact that every one of your links are from CNN tells me that we probably aren't going to agree on much

I used CNN because your original point was that liberal media outlets (and/or the government) didn't report on the fact that physically active people at a healthy bodyweight had a much lower risk of severe illness. I used CNN in an earlier post to respond to someone suggesting the same thing about vaccine complications.

It wouldn't have made any sense to use stories from a conservative news outlet to make those points.

 

[Where's Bruce?]

Obviously there is a backstory here that I don't want or need to know about. But dam that's cold man.

The difference here is that I don't believe Opah. He's been caught lying online (various forums) too many times and in my line of work (dealing with people in rehabs) you simply become jaded after a while. My brother was a hopeless drunk, it's partly why I opened this business. But ask anyone who deals with addicts on a daily basis and they'll tell ya...9 out of 10 times, if they're talking-they're lying, they're manipulating, they're brilliant at subterfuge . My personal time spent with Opah hunting convinced me he is arguably a subspecies of human with no moral code and full of bovine excrement. If he told me the sky was blue...I'd have to step outside to look for myself...I take nothing he posts at face value based on first hand experience and his fictionalized stories. Now if he posted a photo like this then I'd buy it but his word alone is (to me & others we both know) worthless. I'm not cold...I'm justifiably dubious. Most people here have no real life experience with the guy and believe him. I know better. I know him. Believe what you want.

 

[Rick M.]

My grandfather worked with a lot of asbestos in the shipyard. The data said it was safe.
My mom used to dust us all liberally with baby powder. The data said it was safe.
I sprayed a metric crap-ton of Roundup on the ranch. The data said it was safe.

Until it wasn't.

Opah - keep fighting! Hope you're back on your feed and tearing up the pasture soon.

*Sigh...

Yes, Sam, science and data change as we develop new information, and we adjust our policies and practices with it. That's how science works. Remember when society thought that everything revolved around earth? Yeah, we don't believe that anymore because we adapt to new information as we discover it.

We know that cigarettes cause cancer, even though they used to be recommended by physicians, yet people still smoke. But it's not because they don't believe that smoking causes cancer, it's because they don't care. There's a huge difference between apathy and outright ignorance.

Also, your examples are from heavy industry / consumer goods, not the field of medicine. The use of asbestos was completely unregulated back in the day, and we didn't realize it was harmful until years later when we correlated lung cancer rates with asbestos exposure. It wasn't something initially claimed to be safe when it really wasn't. It was just completely unregulated.

With Roundup, that was an instance of corporate greed. They knew their product caused cancer, and hid it from the government for years. That was intentional obfuscation of known data to maintain profits and avoid lawsuits. Again, not the field of vaccine research or medicine.

Baby powder is considered a cosmetic consumer good, not medicine. Therefore, it is not handled by or approved by the FDA. It was another case of correlating data over time that lead to its contraindication. In fact, it is not the FDA or any governing body doing recalls, but the manufacturer themselves, to which the FDA responded with an advisory bulletin for consumers.

In the United States, consumer goods are not regulated or subject to safety standards before usage (like they are in Europe). In Europe, products must be proven safe before they can be used, but here in the States, we operate on the model of "use it until bad things start to happen, and then we can investigate it".

None of your examples make any sense in the context of the Covid-19 vaccination either way, because the available vaccines were tested extensively before being approved for use and we do have data proving its safety and effectiveness.

A more fair statement for you to have made would be something along the lines of "we claimed to not know that the Covid-19 vaccine was safe and effective, until it was proven to be safe and effective, and then I continued not believing so."