Colorado draw odds- any bets?

[ckleeves]

For the past few years it seems the DOW have been manufacturing hunts to get guys to burn points (76 and 61 early rifle elk, 65 above t-line rifle deer etc)

Then this happens, going completely in the opposite direction,and it’s not like we couldn’t predict this. We had a thread about this a few months ago where many guys including myself saw this coming.

We know it’s going to really hurt the MSG draw. Many guys didn’t know about the changes this year so I’m betting next year we see another jump although not as big.

Deer and elk I see the lower tier units taking a beating. Guys who are jumping in the draw this late more then likely aren’t chasing the 10+ point units. I see the 0-3 point deer units jumping simply because guys will start using points to draw them because they have them. Build points for 5 years, start really looking at odds and realize that they can’t draw anything and dump them on a 1 point unit.

I realize they did it from a Financial standpoint, all said and done it was supposedly costing them about 10.00 per app by the time they deposited checks, preformed the draw and issued and mailed refund checks.

I’m sure the Bernie Sanders voters will jump on me like the last thread, but IMO its time for non-refundable hunting license purchases before applying (Arizona? Idaho? Utah?) Or PP fees (Wyoming) = More revenue and reduced point creep.

 

[svivian]

Thanks CPW for continuing to ruin Colorado hunting...

 

[Nomad]

IMO its time for non-refundable hunting license purchases before applying (Arizona? Idaho? Utah?) Or PP fees (Wyoming) = More revenue and reduced point creep.

I don't hate this idea. Put a little skin in the game.

 

[SandyCreek]

I don't hate this idea. Put a little skin in the game.

i suggested this in another forum.. and was told I'm anti opportunity...and that i must be rich.. The reality is there has to be something, its a limited resource

 

[El General]

i suggested this in another forum.. and was told I'm anti opportunity...and that i must be rich.. The reality is there has to be something, its a limited resource

The draw is an unlimited resource of revenue for the state. Just because more people apply, doesn't mean they issue more tags. And, Colorado did have point fees ($40.00 per) or you had to be a 2017 license holder ($56.00).

I'm just being contrarian. Coming into western hunting recently, I am boned out of the preference point system there anyway.

I think a huge chunk of those numbers will prove to be people buying points.

 

[orionthehunter1]

Yes but for sheep, goat, and moose that huge influx is screwing us guys who have been applying for decades. Because the weighted points give no true advantage and everyone after the initial three points has the same odds of drawing the low random number. This huge influx coming in will be drawing a majority of the tags when they become eligible because there is so many of them and their chances will be better to get a low random number.

 

[ckleeves]

The draw is an unlimited resource of revenue for the state. Just because more people apply, doesn't mean they issue more tags. And, Colorado did have point fees ($40.00 per) or you had to be a 2017 license holder ($56.00).

I'm just being contrarian. Coming into western hunting recently, I am boned out of the preference point system there anyway.

I think a huge chunk of those numbers will prove to be people buying points.

I think he’s saying tags are a limited resource. The current fees are a joke. 160.00 a year non refundable sounds about right for nonres. Residents should have to pay their fair share also. I don’t think 40.00-70.00 is unreasonable for a hunting license/ small game (whatever you want to call it) Drop a few bucks off the cost of big game tags to offset some of the added fees while eliminating a % of “point only” guys.

3.00 apps are fine as long as there is a much larger fee before you can apply. I bet Colorado would still keep 70% of the applicants it has now by doing this while gaining revenue.

I’m in favor of overhauling the MSG draw to give more preference to the guys who have been in much longer. Squared point system or true bonus point system.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Foldem]

I think he’s saying tags are a limited resource. The current fees are a joke. 160.00 a year non refundable sounds about right for nonres. Residents should have to pay their fair share also. I don’t think 40.00-70.00 is unreasonable for a hunting license/ small game (whatever you want to call it) Drop a few bucks off the cost of big game tags to offset some of the added fees while eliminating a % of “point only” guys.

3.00 apps are fine as long as there is a much larger fee before you can apply. I bet Colorado would still keep 70% of the applicants it has now by doing this while gaining revenue.

I’m in favor of overhauling the MSG draw to give more preference to the guys who have been in much longer. Squared point system or true bonus point system.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And completely screw over all the young hunters chances of ever drawing an MSG tag in the process. Yes it sucks, I haven’t drawn MSG in my past decade plus of applying even when I moved away for a few years, but IT’S NOT ALL ABOUT US. The fairest way as these get more and more rare and popular is a straight random draw like New Mexico and Idaho.

 

[ckleeves]

And completely screw over all the young hunters chances of ever drawing an MSG tag in the process. Yes it sucks, I haven’t drawn MSG in my past decade plus of applying even when I moved away for a few years, but IT’S NOT ALL ABOUT US. The fairest way as these get more and more rare and popular is a straight random draw like New Mexico and Idaho.

How would either of those completely screw a young persons chance of a MSG tag? In a true bonus system the 10k new people in the draw would have the same odds as the 1k people in the draw with 10 points. Straight random is fine with me also, but it can’t be 3.00. And pick a species. One species. If you really want a sheep tag then you can’t apply for deer,moose,elk,etc. This would keep odds WAY up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Foldem]

I agree with you on the pick a species and that it needs to be a more substantial commitment than a $3.00 raffle ticket for everything. The squared bonus points is what I meant would severely limit draw odds for those just getting in. Look at the odds in Montana.

 

[ckleeves]

Agreed. Squared is just another option. But it does give maybe to much swing to the guys with 20+ points. There is plenty of guys with more points then me so it’s not like either of squared or bonus guarantee me a sheep tag. But I feel there needs to be some advantage given to the guys who actually applied when it took real money.

Or start with a completely clean slate and go with Idaho’s system. Having a quota on non-res elk tags wouldn’t fly with CPW though lol. Gotta pack the woods out with as many people as possible!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[robie]

I liked that each state is different. AZ rewards guys that have been in it for year and gives newer people a chance but it isn't free to play like CO just made it.

It really pisses me off that they are teasing people with this $3 nonsense. Make SMG $100 or whatever the hell you are going to make it over the next 5 years and make the rest something that is reasonable and hold it there for a few years. I'm not a fan of buying a very expensive PP each year but this is just dumb.

Almost as dumb as increasing tag fees for non-residents while lowering those for residents. Slow clap for those running CO. It would be interesting to see the state collapse if all NR OTC hunters just decided not to visit CO for 1 year.

 

[vanish]

The ability to raise the app fee to $10/$20 was approved this year. You can bet your left arm CPW will raise that fee. I wouldn't surprised if it went straight to the max for MSG.

It certainly won't knock all those people back out, but I think it will temper the numbers a bit.

 

[vanish]

Almost as dumb as increasing tag fees for non-residents while lowering those for residents. Slow clap for those running CO. It would be interesting to see the state collapse if all NR OTC hunters just decided not to visit CO for 1 year.

NR fees were tied to CPI, while R fees were not. That changed for next season. So now you can happily watch as R fees go up, too.

 

[robie]

NR fees were tied to CPI, while R fees were not. That changed for next season. So now you can happily watch as R fees go up, too.

It was idiotic not to tie both to CPI in the first place. Every state should do that. They can avoid the outrage they will experience by not having to make massive increases every 10 years.

 

[SandyCreek]

yes i was referring to number of tags.. cost has got to go up thats the only way, some sort of high non refundable.. it will make most people pick and choose what and where they apply. I realize that statement sucks but its a grim reality. I apply in 10 states.. If i have to pay a $150 dollar non refundable hunting license, plus species fees am i going to apply for every species in 10 states? probably not.. it sucks but what else can you do.. as a side i'd can all my points for a true random draw every year.

 

[Jbehredt]

This is the kind of crap you see when you merge a viable and pretty squared away Division of Wildlife with a bankrupt and broken parks department. Thanks Hickenlooper.

 

[ColoradoV]

Some good may come out of this or there is strong talk going around the campfire - that since the cpw is looking over the season structure this year they are also looking at some big changes to allocation of all big game.. Fair to say it is way past time for Colorado to get big game allocation more in line with other western states as when colorado allocation is compared to other western states the current allocation is very very unfair to residents!

I believe a 10% NR cap on 5+ point units and a 15% NR cap on all other units is a good change and place to start. With a similar allocation for all left over tags as it is getting to the point it is needed and again more of a fair allocation for residents like every other western state... Or money in CPW and greedy outfitters who have the ear of the cpw - is the only driving force behind why the cpw hates us resident hunters so much.

Then cpw can adjust the fee's where they need to justify the change as it has been long overdue. I also like the idea of buying a hunting licence like other western states even to put in for any species - then a $50 nr application fee per species at that will put enough in the coffer to get residents 90% of allocated tags for deer and elk and is a needed change.

Yes some NR will cry and moan a few may drop out but the facts are real or others will take their place as the CPW is getting the $ they need it again is a needed and will be a positive change.

 

[TwoTikkas]

I've been cursed on various forums for this comment. Nothing like holding the nation's wildlife hostage. Cash crop wildlife. Anyone that thinks they are going to default to Canada for deer, elk or sheep,better have deeep pockets. I figure they aren't going to be squeamish about cashing in on our plight. A sport of Kings is where our children are headed. What a shame.

 

[Bulldawg]

If I were king for a day...

Tag allocation:
Resident- 80%
Non resident- 20%
With 10% of each held for youth

Cost:
A planned increase of 2% a year to match inflation
All hunters must purchase hunting license and habitat stamp would be required to be purchased prior to applying

Entire tag fee must be paid up front at time of application, all will be refunded minus 5% of tag fee for preference point.

Moose, sheep, and goat would become once in a lifetime tags, once you harvest one you cannot apply for again

Big change:

Preference points would reset every 10 years. 2020 everybody has 0 points and you can gain up to 10, then in 2030 all points reset again.

OTC tags for non residents would be general tags like Wyoming or Montana, have to be drawn. I don’t know what the number of tags would be but it would be large enough where drawing would be easy enough

Some people say that hunting is becoming a rich mans game and it’s “not fair” and our founding fathers wanted all people to be able to go hunting and provide for their families. Which I totally agree with whole heartedly, but the wildlife in this country was determined to be held in trust by the state for the residents of that state. And correct me if I’m wrong, but there is not a state out there that doesn’t have resident tag fees that are affordable by all. If you can afford the time off work, travel across the country, And spend a week or more hunting, you can afford a reasonable tag fee, if you can’t, stay and hunt the animals in your state and don’t try and tell other states how they need to manage their wildlife to benefit you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk