Cecil

[bourbon]

I'm starting a petition to have the movie Coming to America banned and all images thereof reclaimed because they display a gross disrespect for lions in general and clearly consider them to only be of an aesthetic value.

 

[charvey9]

I'm starting a petition to have the movie Coming to America banned and all images thereof reclaimed because they display a gross disrespect for lions in general and clearly consider them to only be of an aesthetic value.

That pretty funny. I'm surprised that hasn't happened yet.

 

[Rucker61]

Why aren't they complaining about The Lion King, with its lion on lion violence?

 

[gmajor]

His responsibility to know the laws. Not his first rodeo. Doesn't seem like a great egg considering his previous issues. It's a shame that the media attention won't mention how hunting in Africa is stabilizing a lot of previously threatened species, but what can you do, coverage is never as nuanced as the real situation.

I'm more upset about how this clown impacts perceptions of hunters as a whole.

 

[traviswdalton]

Why aren't they complaining about The Lion King, with its lion on lion violence?

Lion on lion violence is a serious issue that's nothing to joke about but I laughed a little anyway LOL

 

[PA 5-0]

It would seem that after the treyvon and ferguson incidents people would learn to wait until after the trial before pronouncing guilt. In both cases the accused was found guilty by the media but after an investigation of the facts they were found innocent. Is this guy innocent? The answer is yes until proven guilty. I'm surprised a witness hasn't come forward and testified how Cecil had his hands up and was shot in the back.

Now thats a quality post!!!! And no, the press will never learn to stop putting their big fat feet in their big fat mouths. Facts DO NOT MATTER!!

 

[KHNC]

While it is amazing what goes viral these days. I will admit trial by most left leaning media is brutal. I will say the dude is a once convicted poacher already. In my book the dude is not a true hunter. I did get a kick out of the " I hunt with a bow and no sidearm". Well no shit as a convicted felon you cannot posess a gun....lol. I am not a big fan personally of paying tens of thousands and having a so called guide pull up in a truck and have me drop something. I guess I like to earn it with my own skills, or lack thereof.

Im pretty sure hes NOT considered a "convicted felon" with no access to firearms. A license violation for killing a bear will only result in a fine in most states. It hasn't even came to light if he shot the bear out of season or not. Very few details about his past. Doesn`t make him a career criminal. Could be something as minor as having a game license to go with his bear permit.

 

[MuleyFever]

He shot the bear outside of the unit he had a tag for. He has also been cited for fishing without a license.

The thing about people like this guy is that he has been caught more than once doing the wrong thing. Now is it possible that every time he has broken the law he has been caught? Sure. It is more likely that a person breaking laws will not get caught 100% of the time.

I caught this today in an article, "She also said Mr Palmer's use of a bow and arrow against Cecil was in contravention of Zimbabwean hunting regulations, Reuters reports."

 

[Ray]

Im pretty sure hes NOT considered a "convicted felon" with no access to firearms. A license violation for killing a bear will only result in a fine in most states. It hasn't even came to light if he shot the bear out of season or not. Very few details about his past. Doesn`t make him a career criminal. Could be something as minor as having a game license to go with his bear permit.

His bear violation was a Federal one not a state one. Killed a bear in WI in an area he did not have a permit for, checked the bear in at a station in the permit area, then transported it back home to MN. Lacey act violation. There are lots of details out there, but horrible sound bite journalism makes it hard to sort through.

 

[KHNC]

His bear violation was a Federal one not a state one. Killed a bear in WI in an area he did not have a permit for, checked the bear in at a station in the permit area, then transported it back home to MN. Lacey act violation. There are lots of details out there, but horrible sound bite journalism makes it hard to sort through.

10-4, I haven't found much on my research either.

 

[Backpack Hunter]

Seems one of the professional hunters is out on bail. Claims the dentist purchased a legal hunt from him and everything was above board. His trial is August 8th, expects to be exonerated.

 

[IdahoElk]

And now we have the Cecil act.

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/...ation-curb-hunting-africa-species-120857.html

 

[69ChrisCraft]

I have hunted in Hwange National Park for elephant and buffalo. They were population control hunts and I can assure you that even as we were escorted by "official park rangers" I can entirely understand how the situation could have spiraled beyond the control of the hunter. I was quite frequently confused as to what practice or activity was "legal"....that goes for the entire trip in Zim. That country is effed up, if you haven't been you can't even fathom how strange a place it is.

 

[wapitibob]

I have hunted in Hwange National Park for elephant and buffalo. They were population control hunts and I can assure you that even as we were escorted by "official park rangers" I can entirely understand how the situation could have spiraled beyond the control of the hunter. I was quite frequently confused as to what practice or activity was "legal"....that goes for the entire trip in Zim. That country is effed up, if you haven't been you can't even fathom how strange a place it is.

And i'm willing to bet you didn't insist on seeing all documentation relating to your PH and Outfitters status to provide said hunt/services. There is a measure of trust involved with outfitted hunts and if your guys are outside the law you'll have no way of knowing it.

 

[69ChrisCraft]

And i'm willing to bet you didn't insist on seeing all documentation relating to your PH and Outfitters status to provide said hunt/services. There is a measure of trust involved with outfitted hunts and if your guys are outside the law you'll have no way of knowing it.

Documentation and laws are things that exist in civilized societies. While I was there there were essentially two factions of the government that were feuding and tensions were high. Mugabe had control of the military while his opposition in the cabinet had control of the police. There were random "check stations" throughout the country and it was difficult to distinguish which was military and which was police. You didn't want to be sympathetic to the wrong side.

Bribing was not only commonplace but expected. We would be on an elephant hunt and the "official government rep" would randomly ask if we were interested in taking a crocodile, hippo etc. For all we knew he had the authority to determine what we could and couldn't do.

When you have different factions of the government that both have power yet don't recognize the other....you get chaos.

If you don't think the powers that be in Zim won't steer this thing to whichever conclusion will benefit them the most then you haven't any understanding of Africa. If the truth comes out it likely won't be from some Zimbabwean court.

 

[djsmith46]

Every single hunter on this thread who dares to point a finger at the hunter in Africa should be ashamed of themselves. NONE of us have a clue as to what the facts are in this case. Africa has always been known for being on the up and up. *lifts leg up and farts*

 

[mmw194287]

I'm not ashamed of questioning the guy. He's a poacher. Anyone who kills an animal in an area that they couldn't legally hunt in and then lies to troopers to hide it (I'm referring to the bear incident here) doesn't really get the benefit of the doubt in my book.

 

[djsmith46]

I'm not ashamed of questioning the guy. He's a poacher. Anyone who kills an animal in an area that they couldn't legally hunt in and then lies to troopers to hide it (I'm referring to the bear incident here) doesn't really get the benefit of the doubt in my book.

I do understand what you're saying. I just have zero trust for anything the Africans call government. It simply seems a super slippery slope to go down. But I will acknowledge you have a valid point.

 

[rodney482]

I still wonder if at the time he shot the bear he knew he was in the wrong area. For me thats a huge factor in me thinking of him as a poacher.

He is a liar, we know that. But who isnt? Law Enforcement uses mistruths all the time and SCOTUS says they can.

It will be interesting to see how this turns out. I am interested in seeing what the PH and Outfitter have to say about Palmer.

I'm not ashamed of questioning the guy. He's a poacher. Anyone who kills an animal in an area that they couldn't legally hunt in and then lies to troopers to hide it (I'm referring to the bear incident here) doesn't really get the benefit of the doubt in my book.

 

[Kevin Dill]

I'm particularly curious why a guy (any of us) would go and hunt in a venue where laws are perhaps vague, fluid or unevenly enforced. I absolutely understand wanting to hunt a certain animal and knowing there might be risks involved. When the risk is that you could easily be victimized by a landowner, guide, outfitter, official or law enforcement...is it worth that risk? If you answer 'yes' and accept the risk, does that make you a bold adventurer or a careless hunter? If you end up on the wrong side of the law (assuming) does that make you simply unlucky...or are you willingly taking risks which are ill-advised and prone to make you look like you didn't have enough self-governance to stay out of potential trouble?

If our dentist had shot a nice cat somewhere far from Hwange this scene doesn't happen. If you spend $50k+, go into a country with known problems, put yourself in questionable hands, generally ignore everything else in your quest for a species considered by over 90% of Americans to be threatened, and then kill a celebrity animal....while having a proven record of killing another animal illegally (we tend to call that a form of poaching and NOT an accident)....doesn't this reasonably paint a picture of very bad judgment at least? When do we stop defending hunters who take known risks, push legal limits, possibly break laws, and then blame the people around them for what happened?

Maybe this guy is 100% legally innocent. I happen to think he's at least 80% deserving of a kick in the ass for the choices he's made and the firestorm ignited by that. It WILL affect us as hunters. When my child used to blame everyone around (them) for what happened, it never held water with me. You go through life that way and you'll never learn to stay out of trouble. You make your choices and you live with the consequences. If those consequences bleed over to hurt other people, you shouldn't be surprised if they come down on you hard and make you hurt in return.

I haven't pre-judged this dentist/shooter as guilty of an illegal lion kill. A judge and/or jury will determine that. For my part, he's proven beyond all doubt that he's a poor decision-maker and unable to keep himself out of very questionable situations while hunting. I won't shun him, but I won't defend him either at this point. All eyes are watching.