Cecil

[rodney482]

Who attempted to cover this up?

Who attempted to destroy the collar?

To be fair, he didn't plead ignorance in the case of the poached black bear--he lied to investigators when they asked him where he killed it. He knew that he broke a law (at least after the fact) and then made a false statement to wildlife officials. The guy's not really a boy scout--see also the six figure settlement he paid to one of his employees so that she dropped sexual harassment charges. Keep in mind, too, that the two guys who took him out had already been arrested well before this dentist's identity was known and well before this blew up in the Western media. Doesn't matter if you are a hunter or an anti-hunter, a crime was committed (and they attempted to cover it up by destroying and then burying the radio collar). Now he's hiding out from USFWS officials.

Do I think that the attention to this case is misplaced and sensationalized? Yes. Do I think that most of the articles are biased and demonstrate a gross ignorance of the larger context surrounding this incident and safaris in general? Yes. Do I think that this guy deserves the hate mail, threats, etc.? Absolutely not. If wildlife laws were violated, however, his role should be investigated and he should be held responsible.

 

[tipsntails7]

Who attempted to cover this up?

Who attempted to destroy the collar?

Zimbabwe conservation task force that works in the park Cecil was living. Those guys carrying AK's trying to deter pouches basically.

"They went hunting at night with a spotlight and they spotted Cecil," the group said in a statement. "They tied a dead animal to their vehicle to lure Cecil out of the park and they scented an area about half a kilometre from the park. Mr Palmer shot Cecil with a bow and arrow but this shot didn't kill him.
"They tracked him down and found him 40 hours later when they shot him with a gun. They found that he was fitted with a GPS collar because he was being studied by the Hwange Lion Research, funded by Oxford University so they tried to destroy the collar but failed because it was found."


If that story is true the guy is boned.

 

[rodney482]

The outfitter is solely responsible to have the permits.

How would a hunter know where he was or if the permit was for the area?

Its not like you stop at the local walmart and buy your lion tag.

Do I think the dentist is a great guy? No. Do I think he got screwed by the outfitter? Yes.

I have been there, I was not the hunter I was a tag along.

All facts were checked with the game reserve that we would be in, including that specific game reserves version of fish and wildlife,cannot remember the exact name, along with whatever sector of government was the overseer of that particular area snd activity . Cities was contacted and verified including all paperwork for exportation. The list goes on, it's a pretty expansive process. But you have to be a real dumbass to shoot something off the reserve that your on or shoot something somewhere you don't have access to. The guides specifically drive into the reserves, they tend to stay far away from the borderlands unless tracking is required. Hunting there and doing it right is not the problem, getting the game back into the U.S. Is where the convoluted laws and regulations begin to take a toll.

If he had a permit for a lion( I assume he did) and if he had permission from the necessary governing bodies to take a lion on that land then he should be in the clear as far as the law is concerned and in my eyes as well.

But if he did not have permission on that property then that's his fault, and he's either to dumb, purposefully obtuse, or just didn't care. Considering his profession and success if say the latter much more then the former.

Although someone throw a pair of binos on that thing and notice that radio color please, me personally I'm not shooting anything with a collar on, whether legal or not it probably wouldn't end well.

 

[rodney482]

Not specific enough, Was it the PH who tried to destroy it?

It says they... The two that were arrested?

Zimbabwe conservation task force that works in the park Cecil was living. Those guys carrying AK's trying to deter pouches basically.

"They went hunting at night with a spotlight and they spotted Cecil," the group said in a statement. "They tied a dead animal to their vehicle to lure Cecil out of the park and they scented an area about half a kilometre from the park. Mr Palmer shot Cecil with a bow and arrow but this shot didn't kill him.
"They tracked him down and found him 40 hours later when they shot him with a gun. They found that he was fitted with a GPS collar because he was being studied by the Hwange Lion Research, funded by Oxford University so they tried to destroy the collar but failed because it was found."


If that story is true the guy is boned.

 

[tipsntails7]

The outfitter is solely responsible to have the permits.

How would a hunter know where he was or if the permit was for the area?

Its not like you stop at the local walmart and buy your lion tag.

Do I think the dentist is a great guy? No. Do I think he got screwed by the outfitter? Yes.

Have you been?

 

[rodney482]

???? Been what?

Have you been?

 

[tipsntails7]

???? Been what?

To AFRICA to hunt animals??

Seriously Rodney, they don't blind fold you and throw you in the trunk of a jeep... I agree he got screwed by the outfitter, but he screwed himself by not checking for himself, or he knew and didn't care..

 

[tipsntails7]

I don't think nearly enough info has come out to condemn or defend what has happened. But oh sorry I didn't know is a piss poor defense of that all he has.

 

[rodney482]

I have not, no interest in it.
But the guys I hunt with have.

The outfitter they use handles everything. From the time your picked up at the airport your in their hands.

They also handled all of the paperwork for exporting the hides and horns.

To AFRICA to hunt animals??

Seriously Rodney, they don't blind fold you and throw you in the trunk of a jeep... I agree he got screwed by the outfitter, but he screwed himself by not checking for himself, or he knew and didn't care..

 

[rodney482]

These hunters dont know and thats why it all comes back on the outfitter and PH.

According to Palmer he was trying to kill a leopard on that night. The lion presented itself and the PH told him to shoot it.

I agree I do not have enough facts to convict this guy.

I don't think nearly enough info has come out to condemn or defend what has happened. But oh sorry I didn't know is a piss poor defense of that all he has.

 

[mmw194287]

I never said that he personally destroyed it--but it seems reasonable to think that he might have been there when it was removed and destroyed, since he (again, presumably) was at the kill site where it occurred. I'm not saying we should hang the guy or that I know that he did something wrong, but I don't think it's unreasonable to think that he might have known more than he now claims.

The only thing I've claimed here is that the investigation shouldn't ignore his potential culpability just because social media blew it out of proportion. I would hope that this isn't a controversial position.

 

[Poser]

This is the best hunter response I have seen:

http://indefinitelywild.gizmodo.com...lmer-has-done-more-for-conservatio-1720901473

 

[tipsntails7]

After reading as many reports as I can and sifting through the anti BS I think the guy is screwed, and probably rightfully so, hwange is free roam park meaning no hunting, so if they shot him on that property they broke the law. We don't know if they lured him out or if he walked out on his own, but the Zimbabwe parks also released a statement saying the landowner nor the guide had permission or the proper paper work to take a lion on that piece of property. They also just released a statement saying Palmer is wanted...

The only reason these guys got caught is they were dumb enough to shoot a lion with a radio collar.

 

[rodney482]

If I were the PH, I would have told the hunter not to worry it was perfectly legal to shoot a lion with a collar and then would have cut it off and said I would contact the proper authorities and return the collar.

Remember there was $55grand on the line.

I certainly would not have went crazy saying OMG we have to destroy this.

I never said that he personally destroyed it--but it seems reasonable to think that he might have been there when it was removed and destroyed, since he (again, presumably) was at the kill site where it occurred. I'm not saying we should hang the guy or that I know that he did something wrong, but I don't think it's unreasonable to think that he might have known more than he now claims.

The only thing I've claimed here is that the investigation shouldn't ignore his potential culpability just because social media blew it out of proportion. I would hope that this isn't a controversial position.

 

[tipsntails7]

This is the best hunter response I have seen:

http://indefinitelywild.gizmodo.com...lmer-has-done-more-for-conservatio-1720901473

Ya but doing it illegally does nothing but shit on other sportsmen and their rights. Just because you write a big check doesn't mean you don't follow the rules, even though the rich clearly don't get that message. Not talking directly about this situation.

 

[rodney482]

Who issued a warrant for Palmer?

After reading as many reports as I can and sifting through the anti BS I think the guy is screwed, and probably rightfully so, hwange is free roam park meaning no hunting, so if they shot him on that property they broke the law. We don't know if they lured him out or if he walked out on his own, but the Zimbabwe parks also released a statement saying the landowner nor the guide had permission or the proper paper work to take a lion on that piece of property. They also just released a statement saying Palmer is wanted...

The only reason these guys got caught is they were dumb enough to shoot a lion with a radio collar.

 

[tipsntails7]

If I were the PH, I would have told the hunter not to worry it was perfectly legal to shoot a lion with a collar and then would have cut it off and said I would contact the proper authorities and return the collar.

Remember there was $55grand on the line.

I certainly would not have went crazy saying OMG we have to destroy this.

Would you have said that knowing it was illegal? Remember there was 55g's on the line?

Knowing you I don't think you would have.

 

[tipsntails7]

Who issued a warrant for Palmer?

The Zimbabwe government.

 

[mmw194287]

Yea, I think that's a reasonable scenario. And it's entirely possible that the first inclination he had that anything had been illegal was when his name showed up in headlines. But you still haven't disagreed with my larger argument--we can quibble over hypothetical scenarios about how it all went down all day.

Do you think that authorities should not contact him? Once they arrested the guide and PH, should they have not thought it reasonable to question the hunter and see what he knew at the time? Should they have tried to keep it a secret so that Walter Palmer never found out that he had killed the lion illegally?

If I were the PH, I would have told the hunter not to worry it was perfectly legal to shoot a lion with a collar and then would have cut it off and said I would contact the proper authorities and return the collar.

Remember there was $55grand on the line.

I certainly would not have went crazy saying OMG we have to destroy this.

 

[bourbon]

Sounds like tipsntails7 already has a quilty verdict in and the rope over a tree branch. I think I'll wait for the rest of the information to shake out and in the meantime try not to speculate too much about what might have been...