Cecil

[Shrek]

I also read it was a crossbow and was tracked wounded for forty hours. 40 hours of tracking sounds like they were totally dedicated to ethically recovering the lion.

 

[bivouaclarry]

The real tragedy here is that it takes a named lion from a preserve to get anyone in America to care about Africa's wildlife. Rhino's, elephants and gorillas all being poached to extinction, but no one in America really cares or takes notice. One named Lion, killed under questionable circumstances, and the internet blows up!!!

I don't get it and it makes me sad. The real tragedy happening in Africa is being lost.

 

[MuleyFever]

* it was bear season
* he had a tag
* he checked it in.
Poaching?
.

Yes. If you have a tag for an area and you kill an animal in another area it is poaching. If you are hunting an area closed to hunting it is also poaching.

 

[MuleyFever]

The real tragedy here is that it takes a named lion from a preserve to get anyone in America to care about Africa's wildlife. Rhino's, elephants and gorillas all being poached to extinction, but no one in America really cares or takes notice. One named Lion, killed under questionable circumstances, and the internet blows up!!!

I don't get it and it makes me sad. The real tragedy happening in Africa is being lost.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ve-of-kenyas-endangered-elephants-were-slain/

 

[rodney482]

Was he hunting where the outfitter placed him? Did he know he was breaking the law?

Yes. If you have a tag for an area and you kill an animal in another area it is poaching. If you are hunting an area closed to hunting it is also poaching.

 

[rodney482]

Where is the crossbow

 

[MuleyFever]

Was he hunting where the outfitter placed him? Did he know he was breaking the law?

Whether or not one knows they are breaking a law does not determine if they face the consequences of breaking the law.

 

[rodney482]

I agree but I also would not lable them a poacher.

I dont consider everyone cited for a game violation a poacher.

Whether or not one knows they are breaking a law does not determine if they face the consequences of breaking the law.

 

[tipsntails7]

I agree but I also would not lable them a poacher.

I dont consider everyone cited for a game violation a poacher.

Ehh, depends. Illegal take of a game animal... That's pretty much the definition of a poacher.

 

[tipsntails7]

Where is the crossbow

Where's the rifle?

 

[go4thegusto]

Now they are looking to extradite the guy back to Zimbabwe:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...cil-the-lion-petition/ar-AAdJtmH?ocid=U142DHP

Getting pretty scary when 100,000 animal rights activists sign a petition and it goes to the White House for review. Sportsman better get aligned on this before our lifestyle goes south!

 

[tipsntails7]

Ive yet to see any evidence that the hunter did anything illegal.

You dont pay $55g to poach a cat.

The paperwork to get the cat out of Africa and back in the US is a challenge all its own.

The bear hunt, my understanding is that too was with an outfitter and they had a group hunting where they were not suppose to be. The group decided not to be truthful when checking the bears on. (This included Palmer) he was questioned and lied. He was charged and paid his fine.
* it was bear season
* he had a tag
* he checked it in.
Poaching?
Ted Nugent has also had issues with bears.. Poacher?

A big eye opener here is he has not been charged. The Outfitter and PH are fully responsible for their clients.. You have to trust your outfitter and he was given the greenlight to shoot the lion.

This has been blown way out of proportion just like the confederate flag. This is the media creating news.

Rodney I'm pretty suprised by your comments in this thread, this is his THIRD game violation incident. He LIED about the bear, so he new what he did was wrong and tried to cover it up.

Game laws are not rocket science, choosing to blindly believe your outfitter is a stupid and lazy way to be a hunter. Grab a book and read it, pretty easy. When I hunted in Alaska I new everything about what I was doing to make sure I didn't wind up getting pinched for something. It's YOUR responsibility.

Nugent... Seriously?? The guy is a scum bag and has had numerous run ins with fish and game in numerous states. He's a poacher with a big mouth and not a lot of brains...

I agree it's blown out of proportion but what do you expect,this is what antis live for.

 

[MuleyFever]

Get aligned on what. If he is called to face charges he should be extradited. If he shot the animal without the permit to hunt that land then he should face the charges. If he can prove that he did nothing wrong and the alleged illegal activity is the fault of the guide and landowner then good for him. It is for the court to decide and he should he held accountable for being involved and given the chance to prove his innocence or pay the price for his involvement. All hunters involved in illegal activities should face the charges.

 

[rodney482]

I like to add knowingly and intentionally take an animal illegally before I call them a poacher..but thats just me.

Someone shoots an elk with an expandable broadhead in ID.. I would not consider them a poacher. Unless they knew they were not allowed.

Ehh, depends. Illegal take of a game animal... That's pretty much the definition of a poacher.

 

[rodney482]

Have you hunted Africa?

Rodney I'm pretty suprised by your comments in this thread, this is his THIRD game violation incident. He LIED about the bear, so he new what he did was wrong and tried to cover it up.

Game laws are not rocket science, choosing to blindly believe your outfitter is a stupid and lazy way to be a hunter. Grab a book and read it, pretty easy. When I hunted in Alaska I new everything about what I was doing to make sure I didn't wind up getting pinched for something. It's YOUR responsibility.

Nugent... Seriously?? The guy is a scum bag and has had numerous run ins with fish and game in numerous states. He's a poacher with a big mouth and not a lot of brains...

I agree it's blown out of proportion but what do you expect,this is what antis live for.

 

[ahlgringo]

FYI- The pic cited above with the bow is not Cecil- This was a pic from a previous trip with a different Lion which looks like was taken with a bow. I also have heard it was a crossbow this time but obviously cannot be sure.

Interesting discussion we have going here- lots of questions remain unanswered which does not allow me to make a decision as to how I feel about this guys hunting practices. For me I do agree paying a shit ton of cash to have a guide drive you to your mark is not my idea of how things should be done, but to each his own as long as playing by the rules- which in Africa seems pretty tough to do or know how to do.

 

[rodney482]

Ok that explains that.
Not my cup of tea either but pretty sure thats how ot works in Africa.

FYI- The pic cited above with the bow is not Cecil- This was a pic from a previous trip with a different Lion which looks like was taken with a bow. I also have heard it was a crossbow this time but obviously cannot be sure.

Interesting discussion we have going here- lots of questions remain unanswered which does not allow me to make a decision as to how I feel about this guys hunting practices. For me I do agree paying a shit ton of cash to have a guide drive you to your mark is not my idea of how things should be done, but to each his own as long as playing by the rules- which in Africa seems pretty tough to do or know how to do.

 

[rodney482]

Here is a good article

http://time.com/3976344/cecil-lion-zimbabwe-walter-palmer/

 

[mmw194287]

To be fair, he didn't plead ignorance in the case of the poached black bear--he lied to investigators when they asked him where he killed it. He knew that he broke a law (at least after the fact) and then made a false statement to wildlife officials. The guy's not really a boy scout--see also the six figure settlement he paid to one of his employees so that she dropped sexual harassment charges. Keep in mind, too, that the two guys who took him out had already been arrested well before this dentist's identity was known and well before this blew up in the Western media. Doesn't matter if you are a hunter or an anti-hunter, a crime was committed (and they attempted to cover it up by destroying and then burying the radio collar). Now he's hiding out from USFWS officials.

Do I think that the attention to this case is misplaced and sensationalized? Yes. Do I think that most of the articles are biased and demonstrate a gross ignorance of the larger context surrounding this incident and safaris in general? Yes. Do I think that this guy deserves the hate mail, threats, etc.? Absolutely not. If wildlife laws were violated, however, his role should be investigated and he should be held responsible.

 

[tipsntails7]

I have been there, I was not the hunter I was a tag along.

All facts were checked with the game reserve that we would be in, including that specific game reserves version of fish and wildlife,cannot remember the exact name, along with whatever sector of government was the overseer of that particular area snd activity . Cities was contacted and verified including all paperwork for exportation. The list goes on, it's a pretty expansive process. But you have to be a real dumbass to shoot something off the reserve that your on or shoot something somewhere you don't have access to. The guides specifically drive into the reserves, they tend to stay far away from the borderlands unless tracking is required. Hunting there and doing it right is not the problem, getting the game back into the U.S. Is where the convoluted laws and regulations begin to take a toll.

If he had a permit for a lion( I assume he did) and if he had permission from the necessary governing bodies to take a lion on that land then he should be in the clear as far as the law is concerned and in my eyes as well.

But if he did not have permission on that property then that's his fault, and he's either to dumb, purposefully obtuse, or just didn't care. Considering his profession and success if say the latter much more then the former.

Although someone throw a pair of binos on that thing and notice that radio color please, me personally I'm not shooting anything with a collar on, whether legal or not it probably wouldn't end well.