Biden Administration imposes lead bans in 8 F&W areas

[Arthas]

My sources…USFW golden eagle populations numbers.

Math is hard.

I'm just asking that you provide link to the numbers you are using. Just saying usfw isn't very helpful since they have a lot numbers floating around. I can continue to provide eagle death numbers from well respected sources including the links. I can assure you that your math is not correct regarding total golden eagle take from wind projects across the United states.

 

[sacklunch]

I'm just asking that you provide link to the numbers you are using. Just saying usfw isn't very helpful since they have a lot numbers floating around. I can continue to provide eagle death numbers from well respected sources including the links. I can assure you that your math is not correct regarding total golden eagle take from wind projects across the United states.

I never said it was, that was from the turbine project you mentioned, you said 133 golden eagles in 30 years…based on that, my math is correct, if you believe the USFW overall population estimate.

 

[Yarak]

This times 1000!
The words "science" and "bullshit" seem to be synonymous with each other these days.
But just remember, Love Is Love...

you left out "comprehensive" in the line of being synonymous with bullshit and science

 

[fwafwow]

 

[Idaboy]

you left out "comprehensive" in the line of being synonymous with bullshit and science

I can totally understand your frustration if how people cherrypick data or a study, and then misrepresent the data or some scenario, and that ticks all of us off....but then do you ever believe anything from a scientific study, or is all science bs to you?

 

[Okhotnik]

Good, science has proven lead is highly toxic. Copper bullets are better anyway. This article is just more conservative propaganda.

 

[Szwampdonkey]

Or are you implying we should not follow any type of analysis and do what we feel is best based on individual experience or feelings on a matter?

Yes, this is what mankind has done for its entire existence and we’ve flourished. It’s just the last 100 years people feel the need to be so reliant on Govt agencies pushing manipulated science. Remember when they told us to wear masks? Yeah, clearly the “scientists” don’t always know what they’re talking about or worse, purposely fear mongering and embellish to sway peoples behavior.

Best to rely on your own judgement than some scientist whose paycheck is dependent on Govt grants. You will never eat enough lead in game to harm you.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

Potentially bad news for hunters and in true form, hunters turn on each other and get into a pissing match with one another. Not a surprise as this happens damn near every single time. That is why hunters will lose the war as we tend to be stupid AF and would rather fight each other than those that are trying to do away with hunting.

 

[Idaboy]

Yes, this is what mankind has done for its entire existence and we’ve flourished. It’s just the last 100 years people feel the need to be so reliant on Govt agencies pushing manipulated science. Remember when they told us to wear masks? Yeah, clearly the “scientists” don’t always know what they’re talking about or worse, purposely fear mongering and embellish to sway peoples behavior.

Best to rely on your own judgement than some scientist whose paycheck is dependent on Govt grants. You will never eat enough lead in game to harm you.

As I said before, I personally am not worried about lead toxicity from big game I process myself. But your response is helpful....it's kinda pointless to discuss scientific studies with people if science itself is a "non starter". So thanks for the clarification. (I would point out that there is a lot of "science" that occurs that is not dependent on government spending). But now I totally understand your statement

 

[Szwampdonkey]

As I said before, I personally am not worried about lead toxicity from big game I process myself. But your response is helpful....it's kinda pointless to discuss scientific studies with people if science itself is a "non starter". So thanks for the clarification. (I would point out that there is a lot of "science" that occurs that is not dependent on government spending). But now I totally understand your statement

No doubt people are fed up hearing “listen to the science” after all the Covid stuff. The scientists were wrong more than they were right on that front and back then you couldn’t even remotely voice anything that could be construed as an opposing view without being shamed or shouted down by the weaker and more easily manipulated amongst us. Even though those opposing view points have now proven to be mostly correct.

Also, same as with all the Covid stuff not one person on this thread in support of banning lead can find or post links to any valid study or research showing hunters and their families using lead bullets have higher lead levels than those that don’t hunt. Yeah, it’s common knowledge lead can harm you but that doesn’t mean you’re ingesting enough of it, or any of it, to be of concern by using lead bullets. But again, same as the Covid response let’s freak out, force people to do stuff, and make rash decisions WITHOUT any concrete data showing we need to do it.

That is why science is a non starter because a certain over emotional faction of this country has ruined it just as they do with everything they touch.

 

[Idaboy]

No doubt people are fed up hearing “listen to the science” after all the Covid stuff. The scientists were wrong more than they were right on that front and back then you couldn’t even remotely voice anything that could be construed as an opposing view without being shamed or shouted down by the weaker and more easily manipulated amongst us. Even though those opposing view points have now proven to be mostly correct.

Also, same as with all the Covid stuff not one person on this thread in support of banning lead can find or post links to any valid study or research showing hunters and their families using lead bullets have higher lead levels than those that don’t hunt. Yeah, it’s common knowledge lead can harm you but that doesn’t mean you’re ingesting enough of it, or any of it, to be of concern by using lead bullets. But again, same as the Covid response let’s freak out, force people to do stuff, and make rash decisions WITHOUT any concrete data showing we need to do it.

That is why science is a non starter because a certain over emotional faction of this country has ruined it just as they do with everything they touch.

I don't think instilling a covid debate is helpful, so no disrespect, but no comment.

I don't think the OP and policy discussed was aimed at protection of people, but protection of animals on wildlife refuges....others in this thread then started to bring up all the other "what ifs". As many have pointed out, it is difficult to study lead levels in humans who hunt. I am not proclaiming to be any expert, at all. I did decide to read more about it though. In some studies I found, and offered, did attempt to measure this, and when reading them, one can see some of valid points and the potential source of flaws in how it was measured. I never said we should move away from lead based on proven human harm, but I think it would also be unfair to make a blanket statement that there is zero risk, what that risk is we don't know. Heaven forbid we allow people to study the topic of lead if they so chose in their chosen profession, let alone shame a wildlife biologist or scientist who tries to understand the problem in their research. Again,I mean no disrespect, but instead of debating something, it probably would help if the person on the otherside would just state they don't believe in science....I don't try to convince an atheist that there is a God, that conversation will go no where fast, so we might as well move on. Good luck out there.

 

[Szwampdonkey]

I don't think instilling a covid debate is helpful, so no disrespect, but no comment.

I don't think the OP and policy discussed was aimed at protection of people, but protection of animals on wildlife refuges....others in this thread then started to bring up all the other "what ifs". As many have pointed out, it is difficult to study lead levels in humans who hunt. I am not proclaiming to be any expert, at all. I did decide to read more about it though. In some studies I found, and offered, did attempt to measure this, and when reading them, one can see some of valid points and the potential source of flaws in how it was measured. I never said we should move away from lead based on proven human harm, but I think it would also be unfair to make a blanket statement that there is zero risk, what that risk is we don't know. Heaven forbid we allow people to study the topic of lead if they so chose in their chosen profession, let alone shame a wildlife biologist or scientist who tries to understand the problem in their research. Again,I mean no disrespect, but instead of debating something, it probably would help if the person on the otherside would just state they don't believe in science....I don't try to convince an atheist that there is a God, that conversation will go no where fast, so we might as well move on. Good luck out there.

That’s the thing though, most DO believe in science. That term/profession has been discredited as of late by one faction in this country misusing the term or applying it intentionally to things that aren’t based in actual science in an attempt to support their weak position. Same as lead being overly present in nature and causing harm is a weak position seeing as there is almost know supporting evidence to back that up.

FWIW no Covid debate was brought up i used it as an example or probable reason people are tired of hearing “listen to science” when the subject doesn’t have much supporting science behind. There is no debating the science was wrong on Covid though and the lead thing similarly has little evidence to support lead bullets need to be banned which points more towards a different agenda/motive.

 

[Swamp Fox]

... it probably would help if the person on the otherside would just state they don't believe in science....

Around here we have a saying: "It's not the heat, it's the humidity."

 

[Idaboy]

That’s the thing though, most DO believe in science. That term/profession has been discredited as of late by one faction in this country misusing the term or applying it intentionally to things that aren’t based in actual science in an attempt to support their weak position. Same as lead being overly present in nature and causing harm is a weak position seeing as there is almost know supporting evidence to back that up.

FWIW no Covid debate was brought up i used it as an example or probable reason people are tired of hearing “listen to science” when the subject doesn’t have much supporting science behind. There is no debating the science was wrong on Covid though and the lead thing similarly has little evidence to support lead bullets need to be banned which points more towards a different agenda/motive.

Again, no comment.

 

[Reburn]

A “bird scientist”? Is that a technical term or just another one you made up. Maybe you mean an ornithologist.

I just believe whatever the government tells me? You mean like the USFW who employs ‘ornithologists’ to study eagles…yep, you got me there, I take their word for it.

Simple fact is ‘they’ don’t, some do. And if we’re talking golden eagles, then not just some, but only some juveniles. Adult holders don’t migrate and only some juvenile holds a migrate. So again, hate to burst your bubble and your made up facts and terms, but nope, still not a migratory species.

I was speaking to balds. But I could make a good case for mexicans too.

Was trying to not use big words that you would have to google. Sorry for trying to keep it simple for you.
I personally dont trust the government until they have been fact checked by an outside the agency source.

I know its hard to see in the city where you live, but when you can set a calendar by when birds show up and leave what else would you call that?

What city do you live in again?

 

[sacklunch]

I was speaking to balds. But I could make a good case for mexicans too.

Was trying to not use big words that you would have to google. Sorry for trying to keep it simple for you.
I personally dont trust the government until they have been fact checked by an outside the agency source.

I know its hard to see in the city where you live, but when you can set a calendar by when birds show up and leave what else would you call that?

What city do you live in again?

You know better than the “bird scientists”? who knew we were in the presence of archery AND avian greatness.

 

[Billy Goat]

Can we just Meme yet??


Asking for a friend.

 

[fngTony]

Let’s leave personal differences aside and focus on the topic.

 

[Phaseolus]

That’s the thing though, most DO believe in science. That term/profession has been discredited as of late by one faction in this country misusing the term or applying it intentionally to things that aren’t based in actual science in an attempt to support their weak position. Same as lead being overly present in nature and causing harm is a weak position seeing as there is almost know supporting evidence to back that up.

FWIW no Covid debate was brought up i used it as an example or probable reason people are tired of hearing “listen to science” when the subject doesn’t have much supporting science behind. There is no debating the science was wrong on Covid though and the lead thing similarly has little evidence to support lead bullets need to be banned which points more towards a different agenda/motive.

“Science has been discredited“, as he types on his science created computer and eating agricultural products that yield more, are more resistant to disease, and need fewer inputs. Science is discredited all right.

 

[Szwampdonkey]

“Science has been discredited“, as he types on his science created computer and eating agricultural products that yield more, are more resistant to disease, and need fewer inputs. Science is discredited all right.

Man, talk about a comment flying right over a guys head, bejeebus!