Are City Firefighters Overpaid?

[Bearwhisky]

Its cheaper to let them get groceries/eat on shift than make them “clock out”. If FF took breaks to do that stuff, it would take about 50% more FF on duty every 24 shift to cover breaks etc. They dont take breaks. While they are doing that stuff, they are always ready to respond. To boot, grocery stores are usually strategically located in the busiest areas, which means higher chance of an incident in that area. So, by grocery shopping in the engine, they are probably going to have a faster response time than if they were sitting at the station.


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[Wyo_hntr]

When it comes to total compensation, are municipal firefighters overpaid for the actual work being done?

Yes.

I mean, most people willingly do it for basically free so...

Plus it can't be THAT strenuous of a job, most FF'ers have like two or three side gigs.


(This is tongue-in-cheek)

 

[Stalker69]

A) We’re there for 24 or sometimes even 48 hours at a time. Are we supposed to not eat?

B) If we get a run while someone’s shopping, would you rather have us all be able to respond in the appropriate apparatus or be a man down because we send one dude to the store on his own?

I don’t have a dog in this fight, but our fire station is just like 8 blocks form the grocery store (max) and they show up in the ladder truck and at least 6-8 of them do the grocery shopping, every week. I don’t care, just find it odd.

 

[EdP]

The only way to know is to eliminate public service unions and let the free market work.

 

[Wellsdw]

Fire/EMS/Law Enforcement jobs are worth as much as that municipality has to pay to fill the positions. They will always make less than they are worth but never less than it takes to fill the position or it won't work.

^^^^^This

I’m a Career firefighter for 19 years (city) started a season in wildland prior.

I was part of the 9-11 interest boom as we say. I competed against over 800 qualified applicants for 28 spots. And those were probably above average hiring ratio. Starting pay 27k. Now nearly 50k in my area, and we can’t fill classes and what we do get isn’t the quality it was just based off the numbers. My city is considered competitive market value and written as policy to stay competitive with other “like cities”. The reality it’s we can’t hire and can’t keep people in emergency services. Police and ems especially, but fire as well. Ems the job sucks but it’s an easy way in my area to transition nursing. (Ems hopes to keep a medic 4 years before burnout. Keep word hopes)

Some days I leave work and sore from laughing all shift and well rested and think I can’t believe they pay me for this. A lot days i ask myself what am I thinking, I’ve suffered from alcohol abuse, insomnia, CANCER, pts, and will need a shoulder surgery in the near future, I’m 40 just for reference. All heavily attributed to the job. I’ve spent most of my 19 years on busy inner city engine companies and special operations. I say that all while chomping at the bit to get off my short vacation and get back to the fire house.

Whenever the economy starts to suck or someone has a shit job they hate, this wil come up. I know it’s coming again. 2010-2013 everyone hated city employees. Was what it was. I was scolded weekly saying that they were paying for my food at the firehouse. Not true atleast in my area. It got To the point we took a guy off the truck, got out of uniform, and went to the store so not to be hassled……

Another recent development in the industry is head hunting. Recently the other 20yr captain at my station was approached by much smaller city 1/10th our size, with an insane offer that he excepted. And no one blamed him. This is a huge change one that pd has been dealing with for a. While but now is. In the fire service.
Honestly though this is probably a trolling tread I bit on, and I’ll post and ghost.
I’m sorry the Op brother in law didn’t get hired years ago

 

[Spoonman]

They are definitely not. First responders of any kind are not over paid. Sports players on the other hand!

 

[Bearwhisky]

Most incidents/ accidents I observe departments have multiple vehicles at the scene including tahoes/pickup trucks. why not use those? Leave the engines ready to go? Maybe some do what I just described but I have never seen it.

This doesnt even make sense. The engines are ready to go when they are out in public. Thats literally the whole point. If they split up and take a command truck to store then they are less ready to go. If whole crew on engine, they can plan fire attack on way to scene while getting the bunker gear and air packs on. Hop out ready to fight fire when the engine is parked.

Do you think the engine is out of service when they are at the store or something?


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[iamthenick]

My original comment was taken the wrong way by yourself.
5-6 guys or how many is needed on the engine stay back at the station.
1-2 guys in a passenger vehicle go to store.

Emergency happens they both leave from where they are at. Sounds like this also isn’t realistic.

I'm not gonna argue and explain every facet of the job to you, but i would ask that you trust that the vast majority of the guys are always looking out for the general publics well being as a #1 priority. We do that by trying to stay as ready as possible to respond and deal with the calls we typically get.

 

[Hnthrdr]

This is a spicy one. I’ll shoot. Current FF for a big city, currently making 98k a year plus benefits. That said if I was the sole earner I couldn’t afford a cracker box house the city. Also I would love for some people to come get hands deep in the blood, gore, drugs, shit, piss, and puke, sleepless nights, dealing with homeless addicts all the time while wearing a smile. I think I’m fairly compensated, do I think EMS should make more that is for sure. Yes some days can be quite or nice, but I’m being paid to be available 24-7, 365 to do some gnarly stuff if need be, which may being throwing a ladder to your kids bedroom while your house is burning, or putting pressure on a nasty abdominal wound so you don’t bleed out.
As far as cutting pay, I think you would get a lot less competence and less qualified personnel. I’d rather have a guy who is a professional showing up when my family needs them than someone who does it 1 a month… no offense to volunteering, but it just isn’t the same,

I’m open to any questions though so shoot

 

[Lee_R]

I never understood the grocery shopping while on call or taking the biggest engine to the grocery store.

Agreed, and I've seen them at the gym this way too, radios on them and all.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Golden Co fire dept is all volunteer.

How many houses have burned to the foundation in golden in the last couple years I know of at least 3. a couple of them fatal fires… also they are not full volunteer. They have paid officers and engineers, they will likely go full paid this year 2024 or next. Golden is some of the most expensive real estate in the front range to not have a full paid dept is a joke…

 

[thinhorn_AK]

My original comment was taken the wrong way by yourself.
5-6 guys or how many is needed on the engine stay back at the station.
1-2 guys in a passenger vehicle go to store.

Emergency happens they both leave from where they are at. Sounds like this also isn’t realistic.

Why do you care how they do it? I honestly can’t imagine even having an opinion on firefighters and grocery shopping. My wife is on call a lot, she works out, runs errands, walks dogs etc etc. It’s never been a problem.

Some people just need to focus more on themselves. I’ve gotten a complaint before because I was at the post office during work hours, imagine keeping track of other peoples jobs and acting like you have anything to do with them.

 

[Theringworm]

These boys earn their pay, no way around it imo. They are an extension of my job and we rely on them 100% of the time to bring in traumas, GSWs, patients who were involved in on the job explosions or accidents etc, so that we can get them through the ER and up to the OR asap. The response time and how quick that patient can get to us is a generally a strong predictor of outcome. They should be ready at the drop of the hat in whatever vehicle, gear etc that makes them the most ready and capable to render aid.

They get paid to do a job, which is all dependent on the unexpected happening. Sometimes those unexpected events occur multiple times a day and sometimes they may only occur once every 3 days. They get paid to BE AVAILABLE. If they get to sleep in, take naps, have a huge meal together, workout, watch a movie, go to the grocery stores…….all while getting paid….i am all for it. Because when that tone goes off…..someone’s life is on the line and it could be mine or yours.

The only issue myself and the citizens of my community have had with the fire department, really more than the City, is they let one of the higher ups in the dept find an investment guy to use for the fire departments retirement fund. Well, their investments failed.miserably, to the point where there isn’t a retirement fund of any significant value. The city is trying to get a bond passed to refund their retirement…..again. This I have a huge problem with. But this isn’t related to the OPs discussion.

Pay the civil servants whatever is required to hire them, train them and keep them employed. I appreciate what they do!

 

[Fatcamp]

LOL. As someone who stops at accidents and is an OR nurse, there is no way you could pay them enough.

 

[Lawnboi]

The minimum raise they should get is whatever inflation has been since the last time they negotiated. If that's 10-20%, blame the last 2 presidents for money printer go brrr.

Ha I wish!

This is the unfortunate situation. In my area nobody wants to do it. Benefits and pay keeps getting nickled and dimed.

With inflation last few years being 7 and 8%, our union fire/ems dept did not even get half that.

 

[Shawn Hultquist]

City fireman 2500 people on the the job in a downtown company for 26 years. No absolutely not overpaid.

And for the record we take the apparatus to the store to get groceries. Why ?? Ask any other fireman and they will tell you because that’s the way we’ve always done it. That’s how rookies get their driver training and some experience behind the wheel.


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[Bailer]

^^^^^This

I’m a Career firefighter for 19 years (city) started a season in wildland prior.

I was part of the 9-11 interest boom as we say. I competed against over 800 qualified applicants for 28 spots. And those were probably above average hiring ratio. Starting pay 27k. Now nearly 50k in my area, and we can’t fill classes and what we do get isn’t the quality it was just based off the numbers. My city is considered competitive market value and written as policy to stay competitive with other “like cities”. The reality it’s we can’t hire and can’t keep people in emergency services. Police and ems especially, but fire as well.

That’s interesting. In my area I hear that it’s incredibly difficult to get in to a fire Dept unless you’re connected. Based on that I’d say they’re overpaid. Why as a taxpayer should I pay more than it takes to fill the position? If your market can’t find enough people to fill the jobs then a raise seems due. Take the politicians and unions out of it and it would be self correcting.

 

[Pdzoller]

First responders as a whole are extremely underpaid. How much is a life worth?

My list of first responders (feel free to add if I missed anyone)

Military
Firefighters
Law enforcement
EMT’s
Linemen
Utility Arborists

Without these people literally risking their lives in some of the worst conditions and situations possible other people would die. It’s that simple.

 

[Jfjfrye]

First responders, and military personnel should be compensated more than most other professions. Day in and day out serving our country at the worst times. And risking their lives to ensure we live an easy one.

 

[TN2shot07]

I’m not sure I know of a public servant position (police, fire, ems, teachers, etc) that are overpaid. These people are key for society to function and should be treated as such. Sure, there are people that end up in those positions that absolutely should not be there and they should be removed just like any other job.

Politicians are a different story…