Anyone want to talk some sense into this guy?

[ozyclint]

There must have been some sort of predator/ungulate equilibrium before colonisation?

 

[Scottyboy]

I have two views on this....

If we could manage them I don't have a problem with them on the landscape at all. Problem is thats a hard row to hoe....look at here in MN...we have more estimate Wolves than MT ID and WY combined add in another 1,000 in WI and it makes those three states look like a joke. Now try to get something done in CO with how the political climate is there now.

My other view is how many guys on here or do you know that curse wolves every chance they get but jump on the opportunity to shoot 4 antelope does, participate in an elk shoulder season, or like here in MN this year shoot 4 or 5 does along with the other 4 or 5 or 8 guys in there hunting party then bitch the next year when they aren't seeing as many animals?How about doing the same thing and then are astonished when a bad winter hits and numbers are WAY low. HMMM maybe you shouldn't have shot 7 does Darryl.

I know I know...guys will come with the "well the DNR/G&F set goals and if they allow the tags than that is the amount of animals that can be safely taken out...." same departments like here in MN that won't even admit that there is an establish MT lion population.

I agree with everything you say to include the mt lion (have them on trail camera)

but, I think an asterisk needs to be made with your high counts for does. CWD areas yes are unlimited but unless you hunt an urban zone (intensive) which nobody wants too out of fear of being shot at first light, (and if you can pull 5 does out of what used to be 601..we need to hunt together so I can learn what I’m doing wrong as I see 10x the people I do deer) I’d say in general tag allocations are fine. I remember the days I could shoot a doe during gun season, well sort of anyways.

ohh and don’t forget the states wants your voice to be heard..

Minnesota's wolf plan

The DNR's updated wolf management plan incorporates the diverse views of Minnesotans and guides the state’s approach to wolf conservation.

www.dnr.state.mn.us

 

[kentuckybowman]

it should be unconstitutional to make folks on the west slope be impacted by wolves and folks on the front range make them suffer and not have wolves. so in all fairness, wolves should be stocked on the front range also because in America that is the right thing to do.

 

[WCB]

I agree with everything you say to include the mt lion (have them on trail camera)

but, I think an asterisk needs to be made with your high counts for does. CWD areas yes are unlimited but unless you hunt an urban zone (intensive) which nobody wants too out of fear of being shot at first light, (and if you can pull 5 does out of what used to be 601..we need to hunt together so I can learn what I’m doing wrong as I see 10x the people I do deer) I’d say in general tag allocations are fine. I remember the days I could shoot a doe during gun season, well sort of anyways.

ohh and don’t forget the states wants your voice to be heard..

Minnesota's wolf plan

The DNR's updated wolf management plan incorporates the diverse views of Minnesotans and guides the state’s approach to wolf conservation.

www.dnr.state.mn.us

I can agree partially with your "asterisks" assessment on the doe tags but how about in the early 2000s when the MN DNR did the same thing and CWD wasn't even on anyone's mind. guys could shoot 3 or 4 does in most areas. Then a year or two later buck only tags in a large portion of the state. Also if you look at a few zones in MN that aren't the unlimited CWD zones now they are CWD monitor areas or something...They jsut had an early doe season where a guy can shoot 5 that's right 5 does and then in two more weeks can shoot 3 more deer. Tell me a ton of guys won't be shooting a sh!t pile of deer then complaining next year.

 

[plumber75]

No need in the Northeast...coywolves (coyote-wolf hybrids) now reside in the cities. In the past they were so sneaky people rarely saw them but now they a regular sight in places like the Bronx, Long Island and many other cities and states. Their primary food source? Cats, dogs, rats and trash. True story. Lotsa little pre-made "dens" in the cities for them. They are literally everywhere. First time I saw one I thought I seeing things.

that is fine they wont be eating elk

 

[Deadfall]

Don't matter what anyone thinks. The wolves are already there. Like it or not they aint going away

 

[Deadfall]

Keep in mind tge wolves we have in lower 48 today aren't same wolf as used to be.

 

[Deadfall]

how do you explain entire herds that have been decimated? Maybe you’re right and they go after the sick first. Then what? What happens when they kill the sick animals? Do they stop? What are the actual percentages you refer to?

Not to worry, everyone in colorado fixin to find out more truth then they care for.

 

[Deadfall]

I think that if the wolf was originally in that habitat then it is okay for it to exist. However, I need to qualify that statement. Their habitat is not what it used to be and humans have made an enormous impact. Therefore we have a responsibility to aggressively manage the wolf population since it is the apex predator.

There is no doubt that apex predators have a place and a purpose, and can help balance the environment in which they live. But humans have done way too much to disrupt that balance so at this juncture we have an obligation to reasonably manage it. And here is where the problem lies. Hunting is really the only way to cull the herd. But the minute you try to hunt the wolves, the anti's either sue, or lobby hard to create legislation to stop it. Their lack of understanding, or maybe they just do not care, becomes a huge problem. As a result of their ignorance, they end up doing more harm than good.

So I now come full circle..... since humans cannot be trusted to do the right thing, maybe wolves should not be allowed. But that screws up the eco-system as well.

Dinosaurs used to roam as well. Lets engineer up some

 

[Ontarget99]

Our forefathers were smarter than people today...the only good wolf is a dead wolf. JMO.

Agreed. Sure, prey on the lame, weak, livestock etc.. please, they are a predator, yes they will kill to eat and kill to kill.

 

[Gumbo]

Private study conducted jointly between the ranching operation and a conservation foundation. I am not at liberty to disclose details until/if the data is published. Study area is Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem in MT south of Bozeman. The basis of the research was to see what effect wolves and griz are having on a large ranch that has substantial hunting revenue from the elk resource.



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Ted Turner.

 

[HighUintas]

Dinosaurs used to roam as well. Lets engineer up some

Yup. Covid has fallen short of historical superstar pandemic status. We should get some dinosaurs reintroduced for population control

 

[bigdesert10]

There must have been some sort of predator/ungulate equilibrium before colonisation?

Prior to settlers of European descent, there were indigenous peoples who also hunted the elk, deer, moose, and bison. They didn't have biologists and wildlife managers to control the take of game animals either. Human hunters have been a part of the calculus from time immemorial.

 

[roosiebull]

the article didn't even make sense, he was citing the reasons it's a bad idea but he's emotionally pro wolf. wth?

one trend i see is folks that are older, who hunted all of their live but the desire is now gone, are the ones trying to minimize hunting and opportunity to hunt..... their whole lives their views were 180, now that they no longer want to hunt, their views change to take away hunting opportunity... they are no longer invested, so shut it all down, restrict it, in the name of conservation! i see that attitude a lot.

i am in no way painting with a broad brush about all older hunters/outdoorsmen, but it is a trend among that age demographic. i see more older outdoorsmen pro hunting, but the ones who lost the desire to hunt turn anti hunting often..... same can be said about people who move out of state, who are no longer invested wanting to restrict their old state.

basically, people who have always hunted who are no longer invested turn on us who are.... this article is a good example.... no logic whatsoever, just emotion based on his lack of investment in hunting. without the hunters, conservation loses support.... without support, it all falls apart.

everything in life seems to favor politics and emotion rather than data and logic.... it's not slowing down either, it's getting worse at a rapid rate

 

[gbflyer]

Appreciate his heartfelt arrangement and few outdoorsmen could argue with his sentiment. But we cannot turn the clock back to frontier days, and the people that cover him up down there in SW CO aren’t leaving anytime soon. Maybe he secretly hopes the wolves will eat a few of them too, and he can get back to his cow hunt without ATV’s and mountain bikes ruining the scenery for him. His form of recreation is certainly more important than others, you know. I suspect he can afford store bought meat on that professors salary at Ft Lewis.

 

[sneaky]

I do hunt elk in wolf populated areas, as well as states without wolves. My career in land management has allowed me to also see hunting and wildlife data collected off of our private ranches in wolf and non-wolf populated areas. Wolves will decrease the prey population, probably to a more sustainable population density that would have historically existed. The wolves also need to be managed along with the prey species in order for balance to be maintained.

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Private ranches you say? Ok, now get us some data on wilderness areas. Specifically, Idaho and Montana. There is no "balance". Wolves have obliterated entire herds. How many moose do you see driving through Yellowstone these days? I haven't seen one in 4 years.

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[Broomd]

I recently listened to Steven Rinella be very pro-wolf in Colorado on the Tim Ferris Show. And that's one of the top business podcasts that reaches lots of people with money in their podcasts looking to donate to a cause...so its not looking good.

Steven Rinella on Hunting (and Why You Should Care), Reconnecting with Nature, Favorite Trips, and More (#470) - The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss

Steven Rinella is the host of the Netflix Originals series MeatEater and The MeatEater Podcast. He's also the author of seven books dealing with wildlife, conservation, hunting, fishing, and wild foods, including the forthcoming The MeatEater Guide to Wilderness Skills and Survival, coming out...

tim.blog

LOL! You mean from the demigod himself!? Say it ain't so, 'slide!
F cking creep....

Sitka/ANWR redux...many of ya'll are nuts, as usual.

I'm not in favor of reintroducing them, they're already there. Not a fan of "ballot box biology" regardless of the outcome being positive or negative for hunters. Leave game management to the professionals instead of every run of the mill idiot.

Yeah, they'll do a great job, kinda like our FBI...the 'professionals'...this country is a f cking mess.

 

[sasquatch]

I think when people talk about reintroduction of wolves they forget about human impact on the environment. Civilization has restricted natural range of animals which affects everything. Population, survivability, range, herd health etc.
Send us back 500 years and wolves have their place. Less people hunting so they can live. Now we have cities and town taking up enormous parts of landscape that would at one point in time be space available for game to go.
I find it very difficult to see how to balance a wolf population in our current state. I would hate to see their extinction, as I do think they still have a place. But it has to be carefully managed and who knows what the best answer to that question is.
They absolutely destroy fawn/calf population due to less range and total population. Look at Idaho Moose, numbers going down every year and wolves going up. Personally wolf sightings are happening more and more. And early spring wolf kills are everywhere. A 2 mile stretch of road I counted 8 elk kills.. so its a tough subject for sure

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It’s nice to see others realize the parasitic ways of us humans. Our population has run wild being we try to cure EVERYTHING.

It’s always ironic hearing manage this manage that etc etc, but then a little virus comes through and we hide in a closet.


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[sneaky]

I've never understood the love affair with Rinella

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[Jessemccarty]

An elk hunter welcomes wolves

An elk hunter welcomes wolves

Though elk numbers are alarmingly low in the San Juan Mountains, I am an elk hunter who welcomes the return of wolves to Colorado.

durangoherald.com

I don't even live in Colorado and this pisses me off. Living in Montana, I've seen the impact wolves have had on our elk and would hate to see this happen to Colorado. Somebody debate this guy on a podcast or something. Probably one of the most egregious examples of hunters eating their own is to supporting the reintroduction of wolves into a declining elk population. So many issues with this.this is

These smart forefathers you speak of also decimated all the other game animals. So I don’t think it was just the wolves that they had that thought process on.

Classic response from someone completely clueless. Go hunt anywhere that wolves have overpopulated and you’ll instantly change your mind.