7mm REM Mag-No Dial Project

[Kjc103]

I don’t

So you just are going to holding using MILs on the reticle instead of dialing to 650yds then dial from there?

What the hell is the point of this post? That is literally why the MIL system is put into the reticle (along with range estimation).

I dont know how to help you.

 

[Kjc103]

In one afternoon it’s easy enough to teach a teenager to ring 10” plates from 100 to 400 yards with a 300 yard zero, and for adults it’s definitely the fastest way to ring all four plates as fast as the bolt can be worked.

Not to be a nit picker, but if you hold a hand width high with a 100 yard zero in the 7 mag it misses a 300 yard 10” vital zone completely. It also takes away the ability to easily judge 350 and 400 yard holds. With a 300 yard zero 350 is hand width high and 400 is either on he back of a mule deer or two hand widths high. Easy peazy.

Exactly!

My first deer load was a 119 mono out of a 280 AI at 3,400 fps.

I was in a stand at the end of a 550 yard field and just “zeroed” (dialed up my turret) to 300 yards. That was the vital zone out to 365 if my memory serves correct.

I was using a cheap range finder at the time and shot over the back of a big ass buck at first light so I just dialed up the scope to an 300 yard hold and kept things inside 350 ish.

Worked like a charm.

Now, with more experience, I routinely dial to 1k or more yards. I have not forgotten the merits of the old school MPBR technique. It just works and it’s very very practical.

Not to get too long winded, but I also shot right over the back of an elk at 90 yards because I had dialed up a scope in anticipation of a longer shot. The situation changed and in the heat of the moment, I never dialed it back down to zero.

Simpler can definitely be better.

Thus, my thought process. Best of both worlds.

 

[WeiserBucks]

Go shoot that setup at 600 without dialing and post the results.

 

[Kjc103]

You di

Even within this idea, the 300 yard zero doesn't make sense. With a 100 yard zero, aiming high lungs is in the vitals to 300 anyway even without dialing or holding over.

You still have to hold over at 350+ so why worry about holding under from 0-300 (where probably 90% of your shots will be) just to save .5 mil at 450?

You do not have to hold over at 350, the bullet will in fact be in the vitals.

At 400 you’re just holding high but still on the animal.

This is the old school MPBR technique or dads used to use. It works very well but you hit a wall pretty quick.

The thread is about:

1. Reliably pushing the limits of MPBR
2. Reliably using a good Mil reticle to, in practice, push those limits further. Potentially out to 650 yards.

For me, 650 yards is the limit of what I would personally feel confident in shooting game at. Even then, high winds, particularly in mountainous terrain, would deter me.

 

[nm.otter]

2. Reliably using a good Mil reticle to, in practice, push those limits further. Potentially out to 650 yards.

After having spent a few weeks with a SWFA 6x MQ Gen2, I can say that Quick Drop on a 6.5 Creedmoor turns it effectively into a BDC reticle. MPBR isn't a big issue -- after 200 yards or so I'm setting up a position, and the reticle is good to about 500 yards at 6x.

 

[Kjc103]

Go shoot that setup at 600 without dialing and post the results.

That’s the plan!

 

[Kjc103]

It's not faster and simpler though. Maybe if you're holding exactly on 0.5 or 1.5 but most holds you're going spend just as much time trying to figure out where to hold with your imprecise aiming point as you would to put a few clicks in the scope. Simpler is holding the crosshairs in the middle where you want to hit.

Further, the diamonds in the mil-quad are 0.2 mil tall by 0.4 mil wide thick. That's roughly 4.7" tall and 9.4" wide @ 650 yards. Not exactly a precise aiming point.

That actually makes a ton of sense.

I know it works to 500 yards on a creedmoor/308.

It may just fall apart past that. Regardless of the better ballistics and extended zero for the reasons you mentioned.

 

[WeiserBucks]

How do you plan to handle wind? Hold and hope?

 

[Kjc103]

How do you plan to handle wind? Hold and hope?

No, as long as it’s a light to moderate wind, old school theoretically would work. A 5 mph wind would be 10 inches. Hold edge of the vitals into the wind.

 

[Castle Rock]

A hope and a prayer

 

[Macintosh]

I really would like to see the “no dial cold bore challenge”. No practice, no dialing, from a field position, on a 10” plate at a called 400+ yd maximum effective range, and, because almost everyone who does so says they use mpbr because dialing is slow—maybe even on a time limit. I tried and discovered I couldnt do it to my own satisfaction, Im genuinely curious what folks can reliably do using this method. I have to say, even as a guy who uses and will continue to use a mpbr-style zero on my woods rifle (MAXIMUM possible shots 200-ish yards, and even thats highly unlikely), I’m skeptical, but Im genuinely curious.

 

[JGRaider]

I really would like to see the “no dial cold bore challenge”. No practice, no dialing, from a field position, on a 10” plate at a called 400+ yd maximum effective range, and, because almost everyone who does so says they use mpbr because dialing is slow—maybe even on a time limit. I tried and discovered I couldnt do it to my own satisfaction, Im genuinely curious what folks can reliably do using this method. I have to say, even as a guy who uses and will continue to use a mpbr-style zero on my woods rifle (MAXIMUM possible shots 200-ish yards, and even thats highly unlikely), I’m skeptical, but Im genuinely curious.

I'd be skeptical too. You ought to make it a "no rangefinders allowed" challenge while you're at it at unknown ranges.

 

[alexnelon]

You di

You do not have to hold over at 350, the bullet will in fact be in the vitals.

At 400 you’re just holding high but still on the animal.

This is the old school MPBR technique or dads used to use. It works very well but you hit a wall pretty quick.

The thread is about:

1. Reliably pushing the limits of MPBR
2. Reliably using a good Mil reticle to, in practice, push those limits further. Potentially out to 650 yards.

For me, 650 yards is the limit of what I would personally feel confident in shooting game at. Even then, high winds, particularly in mountainous terrain, would deter me.

If you shoot a 1moa rifle, your cone of dispersion at 350 yards plus 3 tenths of drop could absolutely fall outside the vitals of an animal.

I fully understand the concept, it just doesn’t work. You can’t have MPBR at 650. Even with your 300 yard zero you’re missing under the animal at 365-380.

From 300-650 yards your bullet is dropping over 2 mils (4 feet). You have to hold over or dial or your bullet will be in the dirt.

So since you’re going to be accounting for drop anyway, why try to make up new math just to push the distance at which you have to hold by 75-100 yards?