Help me choose a scope for my sheep rifle

[Jake Larsen]

If that was the case people wouldn't recommend variable scopes, dialing scopes or even scopes at all...

Remember "There are no solutions, only tradeoffs."

There are indeed only trade offs. And one of the trade offs for having a scope that isn’t reliable is wasting thousands of dollars and weeks/months/years of planning, saving, scouting, and dreaming because your scope couldn’t handle the plane ride, horse ride, backpack ride, or accidental knock while climbing around in the rocks.

There are durable options on the market that also perform at a high level. It would be foolish to not choose one.


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[z987k]

Sounds like a sweet lightweight build! This will be a 7mm SAW 2. Basically a 7mm-08 improved. I’ll be able to get 165gr seeds in the 2700-2800fps range out of a 20” barrel, with only 45gr ish of powder. Out of a lightweight supresssed rig, it will be pretty mild, and will have reliable expansion at or past my top end hunting ranges. I thought about 6Creed quite a lot for this rifle. It’ll be a multi purpose sheep/deer/bears/elk backpack gun, so I went with a cartridge that’ll push a little heavier bullet. Was originally settled on 7mm-08 with extended mag for seating long, until I discovered the 7mm SAW. It allows me to shoot the bullet I want at the speeds I’m looking to get out of a short barrel with ease.


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If you want to run a 308 case at high pressure(what a 7SAW is), just build a 277 fury. It's what my sheep gun is. Short mag velocity without the recoil.

 

[Jake Larsen]

If you want to run a 308 case at high pressure(what a 7SAW is), just build a 277 fury. It's what my sheep gun is. Short mag velocity without the recoil.

Lots of reasons for me. Number one is bullet selection. This is a multi purpose rifle for me. It’s going to kill sheep, deer, elk, bears, and who knows what else. A cartridge optimized for 160-170gr seeds just fits my needs better. The ballistics of .284 bullets in that weight range are hard to argue with. The 7 Saw pushes those bullets at more than adequate speeds for my max hunting range , and does so with a relatively mild load. I shoot with a suppressor, so it’ll be quite manageable, even with an ultralight rifle. Here’s a link to powder/barrel testing. Very impressive stuff.

7mm SAW barrel length and power tests – West Texas Ordnance, Inc. | Custom Rifles & Accessories

A few more benefits: great barrel life, brass selection (Single pass resize on Lapua srp, or off the shelf from Alpha, also srp), brass life (talking with the WTO guys, not uncommon to get 25+ firings on either Alpha or Lapua) A major benefit of small rifle primers + top end brass.


If this was a pure sheep gun, it’d be chambered in 6mm Creed haha.


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[z987k]

Lots of reasons for me. Number one is bullet selection, followed by barrel life, brass selection (Lapua or Alpha SRP), brass life.

This is a multi purpose rifle for me. It’s going to kill sheep, deer, elk, bears, and who knows what else. A cartridge optimized for 160-170gr seeds just fits my needs better. The ballistics of .284 bullets in that weight range are hard to argue with. The 7 Saw pushes those bullets at more than adequate speeds for my max hunting range , and does so with a relatively mild load. I shoot with a suppressor, so it’ll be quite manageable, even with an ultralight rifle. Here’s a link to powder/barrel testing. Very impressive stuff.

7mm SAW barrel length and power tests – West Texas Ordnance, Inc. | Custom Rifles & Accessories

If this was a pure sheep gun, it’d be chambered in 6mm Creed haha.


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Ya, I'm familiar with the SAW. He's pushing the lapua SRP brass up at 70kpsi or so. I'm just saying if you're going to do that, do it in a case that can actually handle it.
If you like 7mm, run 277fury brass through a 7mm-08 die, and load it to 70k or even a bit hotter.

 

[Jake Larsen]

Ya, I'm familiar with the SAW. He's pushing the lapua SRP brass up at 70kpsi or so. I'm just saying if you're going to do that, do it in a case that can actually handle it.
If you like 7mm, run 277fury brass through a 7mm-08 die, and load it to 70k or even a bit hotter.

I’d say 25+ firings on Lapua/Alpha brass without a single failure for thousands upon thousands of rounds is a pretty good indication that the case can handle the pressure.

I won’t have to push the cartridge very hard at all in order to accomplish what I want. I’m going to be pushing 165 TGKs out of a 20” barrel. I need 2700 FPS to have reliable expansion at 700 yards. Talking with the WTO guys, 45.1gr of H4350 should get me there, and that’s apparent been a sweet spot for several different bullets. If you check their speed testing, that’s nowhere near max pressure

Also, after precision reloading for the last several years, I won’t even consider a cartridge for which I can’t get either Lapua or Alpha brass.

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[Buzby]

I like the clarity and light performance even if I give up durability.

Unfortunately, most people in the market agree with you. This is why we have a ton of scopes with great glass, and a few scopes that are reliable.

 

[Alaska92]

Without question, the NF NXS. You need your scope to work correctly. FFP would certainly be desired, as well as a MIL based system. 6.5 oz. on the mounting system is a bit inconsequential.

 

[Jake Larsen]

Without question, the NF NXS. You need your scope to work correctly. FFP would certainly be desired, as well as a MIL based system. 6.5 oz. on the mounting system is a bit inconsequential.

That’s pretty much been my conclusion from this thread. Mounting wise, I’m going to go with a Murphy precision TI rail and Nightforce UL rings. Will only cost me around 2 oz net compared to Hawkins LR Hybrids. Much more solid system, and no issues getting proper eye relief. Small price to pay


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[180ls1]

Unfortunately, most people in the market agree with you. This is why we have a ton of scopes with great glass, and a few scopes that are reliable.

Yeah, features and branding sell. Look at how many drive a Ford/GM/Ram when its well known Toyota is more reliable.

That said, I am not sure how many are aware of issues with Leupold. Its certainly not as known as the car/truck market.

 

[Jake Larsen]

Yeah, features and branding sell. Look at how many drive a Ford/GM/Ram when its well known Toyota is more reliable.

That said, I am not sure how many are aware of issues with Leupold. Its certainly not as known as the car/truck market.

Whoa there hold up, we’re close enough to WWIII without these kinds of comments


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[180ls1]

Whoa there hold up, we’re close enough to WWIII without these kinds of comments


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Hah! I didn't even know that was debatable. Ok. I've said my piece and a little disagreement is good for discussion. Good luck and post up the hunt story when you kill!

 

[Marshfly]

If that was the case people wouldn't recommend variable scopes, dialing scopes or even scopes at all...

Remember "There are no solutions, only tradeoffs."

Recommending scopes that consistently fail during the truck ride to the trailhead is foolish. Maybe they fail more in those terrible riding Toyotas you like and he drives a cushy, comfy American truck so it won't break. But you go ahead and stake a lifetime hunt on Leupold if that's what you want to do.

 

[180ls1]

Recommending scopes that consistently fail during the truck ride to the trailhead is foolish. Maybe they fail more in those terrible riding Toyotas you like and he drives a cushy, comfy American truck so it won't break. But you go ahead and stake a lifetime hunt on Leupold if that's what you want to do.

Nah, given how much everyone in here prioritizes reliability, I dont think anyone is foolish enough to drive a domestic.

 

[Jake Larsen]

Nah, given how much everyone in here prioritizes reliability, I dont think anyone is foolish enough to drive a domestic.

I’m getting out the popcorn


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[Sportaboutenc]

I’ve got an ultralight build coming my way this spring. Still undecided on what to top it with. Because this is a very lightweight build, I’m trying to meet my criteria, without going “overbuilt” for the job. Here’s my non-negotiables/considerations:

Max range will be 700 yards
Mils w/holdover reticle
Reliable tracking w/zero stop
Holds zero/durability
Lightweight: Max 24oz, preferably closer to 20

I’ve basically got two options (unless I’m missing something) from my research:

Nightforce NSX 2.5-10x42
Trijicon Credo 3-15x42

Before I get the FFP crowd chiming in, I’m choosing 2nd focal plane scopes on purpose. I’ve tried both, I’m sticking with a 2nd focal plane. Im looking for real world user feedback on these scopes at full power, (10x and 15x respectively) for holdover and wind hold in hunting situations. Is the 10x on the Nightforce enough juice for the 5-700 yard shots? Is the 15x on the Trijicon too much for the 2-400 yard shots?

I prefer to dial for drop and hold for wind. However, I’m switching to Mils to learn/take advantage of a holdover reticle for dynamic situations.

I’m already biased toward the Nightforce for three reasons.

1. The durability/reliability of tracking for dialing. I know the credo did well in the drop tests, but there’s a part of me that just trusts Nightforce more
2. Lighter weight
3. In my previous hunting, I typically shoot stuff at ranges inside 500 yards. However, I want the capability to stretch out if needed, so if the 10x isn’t enough, I could be swayed to the Trijicon, or something else?

I have one major concern with the Nightforce, and that’s mounting. I will be mounting with Hawkins LR Hybrids (once I can get my hands on a set without the 20MOA cant). Eye relief could be an issue. Action is a Falkor LW7. I really don’t want to have to go to a rail, as it will cost me a net total of 6.5oz (for a Falkor split rail + NF ultralights) The Falkor has the same spacing as a Defiance, so I may have another lightweight aluminum rail option out there I’m not aware of? How reliable are aluminum rails in general? Anyone have experience mounting the NXS 2.5-10 on a Manners PH with one piece talleys or Hawkins?


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Jake,
Shooting out to 700 at 10x is definitely doable. I have a lot of real world experience in both long range competitive shooting and “other things that rely on precision shooting”. I have worked with both NF and Leupold glass for 10 years and I am thrilled with both of them. I use NF 1-8x for my close range to medium ranges 5m to 500/600m and then I jump to 7-35x for heavier weapon systems. The middle area I like a lot is the Leupold 3.6-18x mark 5 with an H59 reticle in mild. I use this on my 308 gas gun at work,hunting and in competition. It may be a bigger jump in size than what you are looking for, however it can be a multipurpose scope for other rifles. The clarity and overall stoutness of the scope provides me the ability to shoot close or past 1000m. It is a 35mm scope so it will bring in more light for those low light situations.

Leupold is also revamping their Mark 4 line and will have great scopes starting at 4x…these will be priced for hunters imo.

 

[Sportaboutenc]

Jake,
Shooting out to 700 at 10x is definitely doable. I have a lot of real world experience in both long range competitive shooting and “other things that rely on precision shooting”. I have worked with both NF and Leupold glass for 10 years and I am thrilled with both of them. I use NF 1-8x for my close range to medium ranges 5m to 500/600m and then I jump to 7-35x for heavier weapon systems. The middle area I like a lot is the Leupold 3.6-18x mark 5 with an H59 reticle in mild. I use this on my 308 gas gun at work,hunting and in competition. It may be a bigger jump in size than what you are looking for, however it can be a multipurpose scope for other rifles. The clarity and overall stoutness of the scope provides me the ability to shoot close or past 1000m. It is a 35mm scope so it will bring in more light for those low light situations.

Leupold is also revamping their Mark 4 line and will have great scopes starting at 4x…these will be priced for hunters imo.

The 2-10x mark 5 from Leupold i have used at work and in competition and it is a phenomenal scope as well but may be too heavy for your application.

 

[Jake Larsen]

Jake,
Shooting out to 700 at 10x is definitely doable. I have a lot of real world experience in both long range competitive shooting and “other things that rely on precision shooting”. I have worked with both NF and Leupold glass for 10 years and I am thrilled with both of them. I use NF 1-8x for my close range to medium ranges 5m to 500/600m and then I jump to 7-35x for heavier weapon systems. The middle area I like a lot is the Leupold 3.6-18x mark 5 with an H59 reticle in mild. I use this on my 308 gas gun at work,hunting and in competition. It may be a bigger jump in size than what you are looking for, however it can be a multipurpose scope for other rifles. The clarity and overall stoutness of the scope provides me the ability to shoot close or past 1000m. It is a 35mm scope so it will bring in more light for those low light situations.

Leupold is also revamping their Mark 4 line and will have great scopes starting at 4x…these will be priced for hunters imo.

Thanks for the feedback, I’ll check them out


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[Jake Larsen]

Sounds great, 7mm SAW is a nice caliber from what have heard so far.

I’ll report back. Nothing but good news from actual users so far


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[ssgjpd]

I been back and forth on this as well. I am going to try NXS 2.5-10x42 first. If this doesn't work out then I will move to the Mark5 3-18.

 

[Sportaboutenc]

Jake,
Shooting out to 700 at 10x is definitely doable. I have a lot of real world experience in both long range competitive shooting and “other things that rely on precision shooting”. I have worked with both NF and Leupold glass for 10 years and I am thrilled with both of them. I use NF 1-8x for my close range to medium ranges 5m to 500/600m and then I jump to 7-35x for heavier weapon systems. The middle area I like a lot is the Leupold 3.6-18x mark 5 with an H59 reticle in mild. I use this on my 308 gas gun at work,hunting and in competition. It may be a bigger jump in size than what you are looking for, however it can be a multipurpose scope for other rifles. The clarity and overall stoutness of the scope provides me the ability to shoot close or past 1000m. It is a 35mm scope so it will bring in more light for those low light situations.

Leupold is also revamping their Mark 4 line and will have great scopes starting at 4x…these will be priced for hunters imo.

The 2-10x mark 5 from Leupold i have used at work and in competition and it is a phenomenal scope as well but may be too heavy for your application.