280ai or 6.5 creedmoor

[GKPrice]

Yep. Just a flash in the pan, what would the competition world know.....? you know the community that shoots more CF rounds in a month than the entire hunting community does in a year.

UH, military "community" ?

 

[Chad E]

Yep. Just a flash in the pan, what would the competition world know.....? you know the community that shoots more CF rounds in a month than the entire hunting community does in a year.

How is the competition world a good direction comparison to hunting. Lots of rounds from both sides have little crossover apeal. Not saying they don't work but I don't think they directly compare real well.

I think the Creedmoor is a great round and seems to have a lot going for it but I think a lot of people seem to be overestimating how much the average hunter gets wrapped up with bc, ballistics ect. The firearm forum of a website like this is not a good representation of the average hunter.

 

[rileybassman]

You just listed 4 states, and how many gun stores in those states did you go to? My point being even if you went to every store in those states that it is still a small sample size.
Heck, if we are determining useful products by what is on the shelf in stores then the Butt Out tool has to rank right up there. Let's not forget the Kruncher deer call either.

Hey now... butt outs are awesome... just sayin... im not ashamed to say i have used one

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[Gatorgrizz27]

I see them as 2 different cartridges for different uses, like .243 and .308, though obviously with more overlap. If it will primarily be used for medium game, I'd go with the Creedmoor. For elk and other larger critters, or 700 yd + shots on deer, I'd pick the .280 AI.

I have a 6.5, but was trying to figure out what was so "magical" about it before I bought one, as the short range ballistics are nothing special. It does carry more energy and velocity out to 650 than a .30-06 with a 180 gr Partition does though.

We all know that if we put the bullet where it needs to go, the animal will die. The 6.5's just make it easier to do that with less recoil, less wind drift, and a little more penetration when the bullet does get there. That's the only magic, and much of the same could be said for the .280 AI.

 

[MattB]

If the public doesn't care about high BC bullets loaded in world class factory ammo with rifles throated and twisted correctly....Explain the Creedmoor then?

In this day and age, marketers tell us what we should want because they know there is a subset of the market that will believe it and buy the product. They call it push marketing. The 6.5 CM doesn't exist because the general shooting public demanded it (pull marketing). I am not saying that there aren't benefits to the 6.5 Creedmoor, but I am of the opinion you'll uncover far more on the internet than you will on the range or in the field.

 

[Formidilosus]

In this day and age, marketers tell us what we should want because they know there is a subset of the market that will believe it and buy the product. They call it push marketing. The 6.5 CM doesn't exist because the general shooting public demanded it (pull marketing). I am not saying that there aren't benefits to the 6.5 Creedmoor, but I am of the opinion you'll uncover far more on the internet than you will on the range or in the field.

Are you being serious?

 

[MattB]

Are you being serious?

Absolutely. You?

 

[16Bore]

It's more for less, on a very thin margin, and likely all anyone will see is a little gain in drift and maybe slighter recoil. Shooting animals It won't matter for shit. 270 ass in a 243 package.

But if a looney / reloader wants everything pointed in his favor it's got good stuff going on.

 

[Formidilosus]

Absolutely. You?

Do you have any idea where/why/how the 6.5 Creed became?

 

[realunlucky]

Do you have any idea where/why/how the 6.5 Creed became?

On the eighth day God gifted the mighty 6.5 creedmore to man. Slay anything from rabbits to lions with a single round, but you must forsake all other rounds. Men fell down and rejoiced exceedingly. Thank you oh thank you

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[GKPrice]

Do you have any idea where/why/how the 6.5 Creed became?

HECK ! I'm not sure where my BREAKFAST came from .......

 

[16Bore]

Give you one guess where it went.....

Just as a side note: This thread sounds like two skinny jean wearing, soy latte drinking, Prius driving pricks talking about Apple vs Samsung at the Verizon store.

I'm bailing while I still have both balls....

 

[luke moffat]

Give you one guess where it went.....

Just as a side note: This thread sounds like two skinny jean wearing, soy latte drinking, Prius driving pricks talking about Apple vs Samsung at the Verizon store.

I'm bailing while I still have both balls....

But then there would only be one Prius driving skinny jean guy left....you can't bail like that.

What you said above was simply my point. For actual hunting purposes neither does anything different than other options out there. They are simply just another option.

 

[micus]

I own the creed, but I would have to say the 280AI, I know you weren't asking, but ill throw in the .02 anyway. If you are into oddballs the 7Saum or 7wsm probably fit the bill better or a Tikka superlight in 7rm.... sigh. sorry.

 

[16Bore]

But then there would only be one Prius driving skinny jean guy left....you can't bail like that.

What you said above was simply my point. For actual hunting purposes neither does anything different than other options out there. They are simply just another option.

None of it really does for that matter. But I still think that it's one that leaves very little performance on the table. But there's lotsa stuff on the table and one bullet in the lungs means food. It is way simple. Too simple.....

I set my "parameters" to shooting under 500 yards (game waaaay less than that) drop 48" or less from a 100 yard zero and less than 20" drift (10mph X wind) at 500. Tons of stuff fits the bill and handloading isn't necessary.


Taking my Prius down easy street......

 

[MattB]

Do you have any idea where/why/how the 6.5 Creed became?

Mass demand at Walmart gun counters no doubt.

Seriously, I am familiar with the genesis of the cartridge but for 95%+ of hunters it has such a marginal benefit relative to pre-existing cartridges like the .260 and 7mm-08 as to be functionally irrelevant. Even for handloaders the difference amounts to mental masturbation.

But that mentality is how companies launch sexy new cartridges that redefine the industry for generations - like the .264 win mag, .350 Remington mag, and .204 Ruger.

 

[Shrek]

Yiu may not see it in Alaska yet, but the Creedmoor is huge in the continental US. In every gun store we visited this year in MT, WY, NE and NM there were more boxes of Creedmoor ammo than 260 Remington or 7-08, with genererally more options.

Which means that in a time when ammo supply is thin and stores are out of most of the popular ammo the 6.5 Creedmoor ammo is sitting collecting dust. The Creedmoor is a well designed competition cartridge but the brass available from Hornady sucks. Norma now makes it which is much better but Lapua makes 260 and 7-08 brass which makes the decision easy for me.
Between the two I'd buy a 280ai for all around but I'd build a 260 rem on a Remington/clone with an extended mag and have the best personally.

 

[Formidilosus]

Mass demand at Walmart gun counters no doubt.

Seriously, I am familiar with the genesis of the cartridge but for 95%+ of hunters it has such a marginal benefit relative to pre-existing cartridges like the .260 and 7mm-08 as to be functionally irrelevant. Even for handloaders the difference amounts to mental masturbation.

Obviously you weren't/aren't aware of how it came to be because you said it was "marketing". The cartridge was pushed for and requested by a certain segment of shooters and competitors that wanted exactly what it offers- something no other factory cartridge does.


It has has nothing to do with hand loading, or very little. It has everything to do with great external ballistics, good terminal ballistics for big game, low recoil, AND superior accuracy and precision at medium to long range FROM AFFORDABLE FACTORY AMMO with guns setup to run that ammo correctly. It has nothing to do with magic or a love fest. It's that NO OTHER cartridge offers all of those things.

The 243, 260, 7-08, etc could do it too..... If the ammo and rifle manufactures pulled their heads out of the sand, but they won't.

If you don't ever shoot beyond MPBR, or can not comprehend inexpensive factory ammo with excellent terminal and external ballistics, low recoil and guns setup to shoot that ammo..... Then yes, I suppose it's "marketing".

 

[16Bore]

If SAAMI said 243/260/708 were 1:8 and Hornady produced Amax/HPBT factory fodder, Creed would still be just a shitty rock band...

 

[wind gypsy]

Which means that in a time when ammo supply is thin and stores are out of most of the popular ammo the 6.5 Creedmoor ammo is sitting collecting dust. The Creedmoor is a well designed competition cartridge but the brass available from Hornady sucks. Norma now makes it which is much better but Lapua makes 260 and 7-08 brass which makes the decision easy for me.
Between the two I'd buy a 280ai for all around but I'd build a 260 rem on a Remington/clone with an extended mag and have the best personally.

Hornady brass seems to be in good stock when I'm searching for reloading components. Lapua 6.5 Creed brass is on its way and is rumored to use small rifle primers, I'd expect it to get 15+ firings like x47 Lapua brass gets. A guy can shoot Prime 6.5 creed factory rounds for $25/box and have 1x norma brass when he's done.

I run a 6.5x47 and 6.5 SAUM but there are many benefits to the Creed. To agree with the sentiment, these are all very incremental reasons to choose it as a chambering but reasons nonetheless.