.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[sierracharlie338]

It’s here!!

 

[JJ3]

View attachment 669223

I don’t know about the T3x, but this stainless T3 Lite is 1-10.”

Blue Lightning.






P

I bought a blued 223 lite from Europtic last year (brand new) and it was keyholing 75 and 77s at fifty yards. Figured this out when I couldnt hit a a 8.5x11 sheet of paper at 100y with a known .3-.7 load. Ended up barrel was stamped 1:8 but was actually a 1:12

Berretta customer service was a joke. Told me to send it in on my dime and they would look at it in 16wks or so. Denied it was possible to be the wrong twist. Finally got a credit back from Europtic......then moved on.

Just my experience

 

[swavescatter]

I bought a blued 223 lite from Europtic last year (brand new) and it was keyholing 75 and 77s at fifty yards. Figured this out when I couldnt hit a a 8.5x11 sheet of paper at 100y with a known .3-.7 load. Ended up barrel was stamped 1:8 but was actually a 1:12

Berretta customer service was a joke. Told me to send it in on my dime and they would look at it in 16wks or so. Denied it was possible to be the wrong twist. Finally got a credit back from Europtic......then moved on.

Just my experience

Wow, that's pretty awful. I just used their CS for my Sako with a stripped screw and they took care of me right away, but I know things get a lot trickier when potential gunsmithing is involved. Hopefully I never have to use their CS for that.

 

[Pharmseller]

Great idea.

Scrub with mineral spirits first as a degreaser, lightly sand, then get creative with Krylon.




P

 

[ddowning]

I bought a blued 223 lite from Europtic last year (brand new) and it was keyholing 75 and 77s at fifty yards. Figured this out when I couldnt hit a a 8.5x11 sheet of paper at 100y with a known .3-.7 load. Ended up barrel was stamped 1:8 but was actually a 1:12

Berretta customer service was a joke. Told me to send it in on my dime and they would look at it in 16wks or so. Denied it was possible to be the wrong twist. Finally got a credit back from Europtic......then moved on.

Just my experience

Props to euro optic

 

[philcox]

I'd be really curious as to how this conversation would change (or if it would) in a world of mono bullets only? @Ryan Avery @Formidilosus does mono change the discussion to needing/wanting a bigger cartrige (e.g., 7PRC, 300 PRC)? - Thx

 

[sierracharlie338]

I'd be really curious as to how this conversation would change (or if it would) in a world of mono bullets only? @Ryan Avery @Formidilosus does mono change the discussion to needing/wanting a bigger cartrige (e.g., 7PRC, 300 PRC)? - Thx

More speed not necessarily size is my understanding. Lower velocity expansion window for reliable expansion as compared to cup and core counterparts.

I could be wrong…

 

[roosiebull]

I think their cartridge guides are pretty good. Good info on case capacity differences with different brass. I find Alex Wheeler's contributions interesting and helpful at times beyond the ultra tuning that aint in my wheelhouse. But i was recently banned for a post here saying i wasn't surprised at reported bias towards bad christensen reports due to site sponsorship.. Used to get a kick out of one of the members there touting how great christensen and carbon was because they don't walk like a steel barrel.

Back on topic.. had my factory lite 223 tube sent to @Pharmseller a while back because the new ACE tube was to be ready in December but ACE lost their 0.219 bore tooling apparently so I've been without a 223 for a couple months and i'm getting freakin antsy to have a 223 back in the rotation!

And there is no telling what Pharm is doing to your old tube as we speak. I’m guessing he’s making a big batch of reduced recoil loads for it though… beyond that….

 

[PsRpOiGrRiAtM]

"More speed not necessarily size is my understanding......"

You must've been talking to my wife.

 

[DJL2]

I'd be really curious as to how this conversation would change (or if it would) in a world of mono bullets only? @Ryan Avery @Formidilosus does mono change the discussion to needing/wanting a bigger cartrige (e.g., 7PRC, 300 PRC)? - Thx

Mono bullets only? Perish the thought. Lead free (versus mono) at least gives you DRT and everyone else scrambling to catch up once they realize frangible/fragmentary bullets make a MUCH larger wound than a mono at impact speeds below 2400-2600 fps. DRT makes a 79 grain .224 pill.

I don't do lead free, but if I were doing lead free in .224" that is the only bullet I know of that I would use.

 

[fshaw]

Look at page 26, that’s a good start to your question, but seriously, start reading the whole thread, it’s worth reading, you don’t have to tackle it all at once, but this thread is loaded with really good information

I’d hope that most hunters end up at a .223 after a gaining significant knowledge and experience. Maybe not. Either way, I’d also hope that the hunter would limit themself to what they absolutely know they are capable of closing the deal on. Doesn’t matter if it’s with a .223 or a .300 mag.

 

[Tahr]

I'd be really curious as to how this conversation would change (or if it would) in a world of mono bullets only? @Ryan Avery @Formidilosus does mono change the discussion to needing/wanting a bigger cartrige (e.g., 7PRC, 300 PRC)? - Thx

In general a narrower wound channel with Barnes. I have experience with the 55 grn tipped and they like to meet some firm resistance to really perform.

Ive killed maybe 25 deer with the 60grn Hammer Hunters at 3,150 fps (have posted pics on here) and they kill ok under the same conditions as the 77TMK. Not as emphatic as the TMK but they do kill every time which is the acid test. They create some serious churn to a deer's insides. Although I haven't tried, I don't think the Hammers will be as effective at the range limit of the TMK. Ive shot nothing over 275/300 with the Hammers. They are pretty good.

 

[Elite]

I am asking this question for my own knowledge and understanding of terminal ballistics.

What advantages do heavier bullets offer besides higher BCs,wind deflection. Will the extra weight of the heavier bullet drive the bullet deeper and still have the same wound channel with more penetration?

I have watched a lot of videos on shooting into ballistics gel and the heavier bullet does penetrate better usually


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ElPollo]

Mono bullets only? Perish the thought. Lead free (versus mono) at least gives you DRT and everyone else scrambling to catch up once they realize frangible/fragmentary bullets make a MUCH larger wound than a mono at impact speeds below 2400-2600 fps. DRT makes a 79 grain .224 pill.

I don't do lead free, but if I were doing lead free in .224" that is the only bullet I know of that I would use.

I’ve been wanting to test the DRT Terminal Shocks and still intend to do so at some point. However, I did find this gel test on YouTube.

It’s not the 79 gr .224 bullet or anything close to an FBI protocol test (wrong gel and no calibration, but heavy on the watermelon), but it does look like the DRTs might have a pretty substantial neck to the wound channel. It looks like 5ish inches of penetration prior to fragmentation even on the 100 yard shot. This is similar to the experiences I’ve had with Lapua Scenars that often do little damage in the front half of the target, but fragment and take out the lung on the back side. The results I saw with that performance were animals running 80-120 yards after the shot. It’s possible they’ll do better than that. One of the guys on here shot a Roosevelt elk with the 135 gr 6.5 DRT and it did significant damage. I also have no info on minimum impact velocity for these at this point.

 

[sturner88]

After reading, re-reading and trying to digest as much as possible. Is there any benefit to choosing a fast twist 250, creed or arc if 99.9% of shots are within 300-350 yards with most being shorter? Mainly hunting areas of Texas where you definitely want short tracking jobs.

It’s hard to grasp the concept of not using ft/lb’s of energy as a good measure of how effectively something can be incapacitated.

Maybe it’s my natural aiming point (crease) but i’m amazed at the amount of “follow-up shots” that people in this thread are able to achieve. In my neck of the woods, a pig or deer has made it 50 yards into the woods on a dead sprint before I can blink an eye. (if not “bang-flopped”)

 

[PNWGATOR]

After reading, re-reading and trying to digest as much as possible. Is there any benefit to choosing a fast twist 250, creed or arc if 99.9% of shots are within 300-350 yards with most being shorter? Mainly hunting areas of Texas where you definitely want short tracking jobs.

It’s hard to grasp the concept of not using ft/lb’s of energy as a good measure of how effectively something can be incapacitated.

Maybe it’s my natural aiming point (crease) but i’m amazed at the amount of “follow-up shots” that people in this thread are able to achieve. In my neck of the woods, a pig or deer has made it 50 yards into the woods on a dead sprint before I can blink an eye. (if not “bang-flopped”)

What’s a “fast twist 250”?

Bullets matter. Hit rates. Wound channels. Depth of penetration. Maximum effective range. Delivery systems. Learning to kill efficiency.

It‘s a process.

 

[kkp005]

What’s a “fast twist 250”?

Bullets matter. Hit rates. Wound channels. Depth of penetration. Maximum effective range. Delivery systems. Learning to kill efficiency.

It‘s a process.

I’d imagine he’s talking about a fast twist 22-250 like a 8twist tikka.

 

[sturner88]

What’s a “fast twist 250”?

Bullets matter. Hit rates. Wound channels. Depth of penetration. Maximum effective range. Delivery systems. Learning to kill efficiency.

It‘s a process.

1:8 22-250 shooting 77tmk’s faster than a 223

 

[kkp005]

After reading, re-reading and trying to digest as much as possible. Is there any benefit to choosing a fast twist 250, creed or arc if 99.9% of shots are within 300-350 yards with most being shorter? Mainly hunting areas of Texas where you definitely want short tracking jobs.

It’s hard to grasp the concept of not using ft/lb’s of energy as a good measure of how effectively something can be incapacitated.

Maybe it’s my natural aiming point (crease) but i’m amazed at the amount of “follow-up shots” that people in this thread are able to achieve. In my neck of the woods, a pig or deer has made it 50 yards into the woods on a dead sprint before I can blink an eye. (if not “bang-flopped”)

I’ve read the whole thread and jumped on the 77gr tmk bandwagon. Shoot them in a 18” tikka 223 and a 18” tikka 22-250. Even have trijicon and maven scopes now (this forum is expensive for me). It’s a mean little green bullet and a kills remarkably well…. But like you, I’m in Texas & where I live you don’t get follow up shots. For whacking hogs and coyotes I grab something that shoots 77gr TMK’s 99% of the time. If I’m shooting deer, I’ve gotten to where I go with my 6creed. It still has minimal recoil but the 105gr hornady bthp damages a lot of tissue and manages to exit leaving good blood trails

 

[wind gypsy]

After reading, re-reading and trying to digest as much as possible. Is there any benefit to choosing a fast twist 250, creed or arc if 99.9% of shots are within 300-350 yards with most being shorter? Mainly hunting areas of Texas where you definitely want short tracking jobs.

It’s hard to grasp the concept of not using ft/lb’s of energy as a good measure of how effectively something can be incapacitated.

Maybe it’s my natural aiming point (crease) but i’m amazed at the amount of “follow-up shots” that people in this thread are able to achieve. In my neck of the woods, a pig or deer has made it 50 yards into the woods on a dead sprint before I can blink an eye. (if not “bang-flopped”)

I think there’s probably a pretty good correlation in energy to tissue damage given similar velocity and bullet construction but if a deer can run a certain distance with its lungs turned to jello anyway, are you really gaining anything?