.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[hunterjmj]

World record grizzly killed by a .22. Just remembered the story. Look it up. Granted it is not head on like Marbles is talking about

Had to look this up. Bella Twin was a heck of a woman. Probably twice the man most of us are. Anyhow, the Cooey Ace 1 was a single shot .22 rifle that she used to kill the bear. Never heard of it until now but it sounds very similar to my kids' .22 Cricket rifle. Learn something new all the time.

 

[JohnDough]

Of note, back in the day, I had some 3/8" plate steel that I tested a lot of 5.56 on.

M193 would launch spalling and "make it through" (launch a plug out the back) out to about 100m
M855 would penetrate, and then through a 2x6 behind the plate. It would do this out to 150m, where I stopped testing.
Hornady TAP 5.56 T2 would perform similar to M193.

This was all from a 20" rifle.

Velocity is what burns through hard stuff, as is construction of projectile. The .45 ACP is a very slow creature, and it does not do well with hard stuff due to low velocity, low kinetic energy vs. frontal area, and soft projectile construction (typically). using some sort of hard caste bullet with a sharp shoulder may change the dynamic.

 

[11Justin22]

Head on, if the shot goes up the nose, a 22 lr will likely get the job done. Bella Twin shot it through the eye, then shot it 7 more times. http://www.bear-hunting.com/2022/7/grizzly-with-a-22-c It is a good reminder that if you can, slow the hell down. It is possible that most head shots just miss the brain being fired in hast.

Though, I don't want what can work some of the time, I want what will work most of the time. I hope to never fire a 22 remfire at a bear.

Also, a 700+ pound bear was killed on Kodiak with a folding buck knife and fists. I still don't cound my pocket knife as bear protection, but if push comes to shove I will try it.

Side note, while the same species, costal browns are larger than grizzlies. Not sure if a 26 5/16 (bella twins skull) would be meaningfully different from a 30 12/16th (record brown), probably not, both are big.

I referenced that saying bone isn't as hard to penetrate as some people say it is. And I totally agree. I want way more fire power than a .22. Honestly after a few years of using the 77gr. TMK I would feel very comfortable having an AR loaded with those. I shoot AR regularly and a person can put ALLOT of rounds down range in a hurry.

 

[11Justin22]

Bear skulls are not pig or cow skulls. The are a predator.

That they are not but just to be clear I wasn't referencing little 200lb hogs that are running around the woods everywhere. Most full grown boars were in the 600lb range with some getting over 700. Most people don't even realize a pig can get that big. They are also omnivores.... Still not a bear, just saying.

 

[Formidilosus]

That they are not but just to be clear I wasn't referencing little 200lb hogs that are running around the woods everywhere. Most full grown boars were in the 600lb range with some getting over 700. Most people don't even realize a pig can get that big. They are also omnivores.... Still not a bear, just saying.

Correct- I was pointing out that as in all other bone structure- pig and bovine skulls are significantly thicker than any predators.

 

[Castle Rock]

That they are not but just to be clear I wasn't referencing little 200lb hogs that are running around the woods everywhere. Most full grown boars were in the 600lb range with some getting over 700. Most people don't even realize a pig can get that big. They are also omnivores.... Still not a bear, just saying.

Please post a picture of the 600 pig or especially, the 700 pounder

 

[Billy Goat]

Please post a picture of the 600 pig or especially, the 700 pounder

Domestic pigs, not what's running around feral, will get pretty damn big.

I think the record is over 2500#.

Talking about an animal that grows to 260-280# in 6 months.

 

[Te Hopo]

I have no doubt a .223 will penetrate a bear skull, of course angle and position are the determining factor.
I've used a my .223 when running Hornady 62gr SP to put down agitated 1200lb cows with one shot near the ear from about 20m away.
No exit, just dumps all of that energy into the brain.
Next time im up the back of the farm I'll grab a photo of this cows skull, showing the entry.


But hunting, possible frontal shot?
I'll be either waiting for a more favorable angle or letting that animal go.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

So this thread has got my wheels turning the last couple of days. The rifle I've been hunting with the last 6-7 years is a Rem 700 in 300WM. I put a Timney trigger in it, Seekins muzzle brake and a bedded McMillan game scout. My thought is a Remington 700 SA set up identical with exception of a brake. The only concern I would have is factory barrel twist. They look to be 1:12. To shoot those 77's or similar I'm guessing I'll need to be 1:9?

The new 700’s are 1:8 for 223.

 

[Mike Islander]

About like here if you disagree with Form or say something to the contrary

Here it's generalee mild unless you make a dick comment along with the challenge. Like calling folks fanboys.

 

[xsn10s]

The new 700’s are 1:8 for 223.

Yup the new Remington 700 are 1-8" and 5R in .223. I had one on order but decided I needed a 7mm Rem Mag more. One is still in my plans for the future.

 

[WestTN2288]

Anybody know what serial numbers or markings to check for 1:8 rem 700s? Most on gunbroker don’t have the twist in the listing…

 

[BLJ]

Anybody know what serial numbers or markings to check for 1:8 rem 700s? Most on gunbroker don’t have the twist in the listing…

SKU# for the ADL Varmint I was looking at the other night is R85417.
Shows 1/8 on there site.

 

[JCMCUBIC]

I would bet there's going to be no problem getting into brain cavity. I haven't shot a bear but I grew up on a pig farm and have witnessed ALLOT of pigs killed (well into the thousands). They were all done with a .22 or.22 mag at point blank. Seen a small number of cows killed the same way

I've been in on the 22 rf killing of many domestic pigs, goats, and cattle. The X intersection of eye to opposite ear, shot from a 90 deg angle, results in the falling in place.

 

[mt terry d]

I 've been in on the 22 rf killing of many domestic pigs, goats, and cattle. The X intersection of eye to opposite ear, shot from a 90 deg angle, results in the falling in place.

Horses also. I'm 5 for 5 but prefer my 357 mag.

Re: skull penetration

I spoke with a guy who had a 7mm rem mag ricochet off a bull moose's skull. Head on, close, something like 70 yards. He put it down when it started walking away.

 

[ElPollo]

Horses also. I'm 5 for 5 but prefer my 357 mag.

Re: skull penetration

I spoke with a guy who had a 7mm rem mag ricochet off a bull moose's skull. Head on, close, something like 70 yards. He put it down when it started walking away.

The ricochet with the 7 mag is hard to buy. I’ve heard lots of stories about bullet failure that are likely just bad shooting. I watched an idiot shoot a steer in the head with a 223 at 15 yards once and it ran off for two miles. But he shot the poor critter in the friggen nose. Skulls aren’t magical armor. If you have a centerfire bullet moving at centerfire speeds, it’s going to penetrate.

That said, I don’t personally know anyone who makes decisions about hunting rifles based on the chance of a point blank grizzly charge, and I don’t think it’s really material to this discussion.

 

[Big_wals]

First kill with a 77 tmk tonight! Whitetail doe at 335 yards, impact velocity around 2200ish. Broadside, hit her on the crease. Small entrance of course, similar size exit. No pics of hide. (Sorry) traveled around 15 yards. View attachment 607371
Entrance
View attachment 607372
Exit
View attachment 607375

Entrance side with shoulder removed

Exit side. My dad came into the shop this morning to help cut up meat and said "Wow, looks like you shot it with a 30-06" (thats what he uses)

 

[ElPollo]

View attachment 607519
Entrance side with shoulder removed
View attachment 607520
Exit side. My dad came into the shop this morning to help cut up meat and said "Wow, looks like you shot it with a 30-06" (thats what he uses)

You obviously need a bigger gun.

 

[Big_wals]

You obviously need a bigger gun.

Yep, 830 ft lbs of energy was perty marginal. 1500 would have killed it deader

 

[fwafwow]

Yep, 830 ft lbs of energy was perty marginal. 1500 would have killed it deader

But it's just a doe. And a whitetail. A bull elk would have eaten that lead.