.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[KHntr]

I guess I forgot that outside of the rokslide community there is a lot of ignorance about using match bullets and small calibers to hunt big game... after posting the video for you guys the other day, 90% of the comments on it are down right obnoxious.

Post in thread '.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.' https://rokslide.com/forums/threads...n-goat-deer-elk-and-moose.130488/post-4492891

Had to toss a couple comments to some of the haters lol

 

[packgoatguy]

If you have necropsy photos showing the wound channel, post them here and then link to them on YT.

Good idea! I added the link in the description to my previous post here that showed the golf-ball sized hole through the lungs.

 

[packgoatguy]

I think there are a lot of guys who prefer to hunt with controlled expanding bullets and rifles powerful enough to make wide wound channels with that kind of bullet. That is not ignorance it is preference. Plus it did run 300 yards. I have never had a well hit elk go farther than 50 yards using 270,30-06,7MM RM, 300 WM rifles. I have had poorly hit elk run that far. Good thing you had snow.

I have.

 

[The Guide]

I guess I forgot that outside of the rokslide community there is a lot of ignorance about using match bullets and small calibers to hunt big game... after posting the video for you guys the other day, 90% of the comments on it are down right obnoxious.

Post in thread '.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.' https://rokslide.com/forums/threads...n-goat-deer-elk-and-moose.130488/post-4492891

I've found that most people put elk upon a pedestal that is unrealistic. If you were shooting a deer then that would be just fine but an elk, you are ruining the mystique! When I hear people say that an elk deserves more "respect" so it should be shot with x, y, or z it shows how little they know. They are putting emotions over the mechanical physics of how bullets work and how tissue damage kills.

Jay

 

[Formidilosus]

I remember that. Didn't Jeff o have something to do with it? I know he was the one that kept wanting stick to post his load...lol.

That was probably about the same time I had this 250AI but for my wife. 2008-2010'ish maybe.
View attachment 996670

Is that a Mark 4 6x?

 

[Kaleb]

Is that a Mark 4 6x?

old m8 6x the way I remember. The only mark 4's I had was 3.5-10's. I bet the 6x would have been a good one back then.

 

[Formidilosus]

old m8 6x the way I remember. The only mark 4's I had was 3.5-10's. I bet the 6x would have been a good one back then.

Son of a gun. I have one, @PNWGATOR has one on his main rifle. I would like more.

 

[Thegman]

I think there are a lot of guys who prefer to hunt with controlled expanding bullets and rifles powerful enough to make wide wound channels with that kind of bullet. That is not ignorance it is preference. Plus it did run 300 yards. I have never had a well hit elk go farther than 50 yards using 270,30-06,7MM RM, 300 WM rifles. I have had poorly hit elk run that far. Good thing you had snow.

One's preference for something doesn't mean another's preference for something (different) won't also work well.

The old "This is what I use and it works. You're dumb for doing something I wouldn't do." is the gist of the invalid argument...and it gets really old hearing it.

 

[KHntr]

I have.

Me too. I had one go 600 yards after taking a TSX through the onside shoulder that got caught under the hide on the opposite hip from a 300 RUM at borderline muzzle burn distance. An ELD m would have prevented that.

 

[FredH]

One's preference for something doesn't mean another's preference for something (different) won't also work well.

The old "This is what I use and it works. You're dumb for doing something I wouldn't do." is the gist of the invalid argument...and it gets really old hearing it.

They still have the right to voice their opinions. Plus though I don't hesitate to take deer or a hog with a 223 I am just not using one in the thick stuff in Washington state near the coast or in the steep country like the Tetons. There are absolutely times when more is better. I can't see how in any way a 223 would be a better elk rifle than a 7-08 or 7x57. Sure it kicks less but there are innumerable cartridges out there that the vast majority of us can handle easily. If I were hunting private property watching haystacks a 223 would work perfectly.

 

[FredH]

Me too. I had one go 600 yards after taking a TSX through the onside shoulder that got caught under the hide on the opposite hip from a 300 RUM at borderline muzzle burn distance. An ELD m would have prevented that.

Personally I have had terrible results using monos. I swore them off when they first came out. The ole Barnes X bullets were no better than FMJ's. Soured me on Barnes for 20 years. I still have only used the 120 gr. Barnes Matchburners on game. I have some 80 gr. 243 TTSX but still haven't decided if I want to use them.

 

[Formidilosus]

They still have the right to voice their opinions.

Why not only state facts, and stop with trying to pass of ignorant opinions as facts?

Plus though I don't hesitate to take deer or a hog with a 223 I am just not using one in the thick stuff in Washington state near the coast or in the steep country like the Tetons. There are absolutely times when more is better. I can't see how in any way a 223 would be a better elk rifle than a 7-08 or 7x57. Sure it kicks less but there are innumerable cartridges out there that the vast majority of us can handle easily. If I were hunting private property watching haystacks a 223 would work perfectly.

You know it’s an issue because you’ve done it, right?

 

[FredH]

Why not only state facts, and stop with trying to pass of ignorant opinions as facts?





You know it’s an issue because you’ve done it, right?

I know without doubt that a 77 grain Tipped Gameking will not give as deep or as wide a wound channel as a 30-06 running a good controlled expanding bullet. I especially know that my 35 Whelen is a far better black timber rifle for Elk in Washington state than a 30-06. Mass makes the difference. There are shots I just won't take with a 223 that I wouldn't hesitate to take with a heavy loaded 30-06 or Whelen. And no I haven't tried it because I am not recoil shy and want more gun when I feel it is warranted.

 

[RockAndSage]

I know without doubt that a 77 grain Tipped Gameking will not give as deep or as wide a wound channel as a 30-06 running a good controlled expanding bullet.

I rarely see 30-06 wound channels with common bonded/expanding or mono bullets that approximate what these 77gr TMK pics are doing.

And, sorry to say this, but unless you're shooting banded solids out of that 35 Whelen, or buckshot, it's going to be deflected as much as a 77gr .223 bullet by any given branch, practically speaking. It's just what spitzer bullets do.

 

[Big_wals]

There are shots I just won't take with a 223 that I wouldn't hesitate to take with a heavy loaded 30-06 or Whelen.

What shot angles would you take with an 06 that you would pass with a .223? Not trying to be argumentative. From my experience yhe last few years with 77 tmks and 80 eldms, there’s not an angle I would pass on with the 223 that I would take with my 30-06.
* I am not someone that plans on shooting at such an angle that my bullet has to pass thru guts or a rear quarter before making it to the vitals.

 

[Thegman]

I know without doubt that a 77 grain Tipped Gameking will not give as deep or as wide a wound channel as a 30-06 running a good controlled expanding bullet. I especially know that my 35 Whelen is a far better black timber rifle for Elk in Washington state than a 30-06. Mass makes the difference. There are shots I just won't take with a 223 that I wouldn't hesitate to take with a heavy loaded 30-06 or Whelen. And no I haven't tried it because I am not recoil shy and want more gun when I feel it is warranted.

Well, one of the two of us has actually used the 30-06 (and 308) with controlled expanding bullets, many, many times, and also 77TMKs from a 223...and he's not so sure.

 

[Formidilosus]

I know without doubt that a 77 grain Tipped Gameking will not give as deep or as wide a wound channel as a 30-06 running a good controlled expanding bullet.

I imagine a 30/06 with a good controlled expansion bullet would penetrate deeper than a 77gr bullet that doesn’t even exist…

I especially know that my 35 Whelen is a far better black timber rifle for Elk in Washington state than a 30-06. Mass makes the difference. There are shots I just won't take with a 223 that I wouldn't hesitate to take with a heavy loaded 30-06 or Whelen. And no I haven't tried it because I am not recoil shy and want more gun when I feel it is warranted.

Again- why definitely state things you haven’t done? I’ve killed or been present for the killing of somewhere between 40-60 elk with 22cals- from 30’ish yards to 803 yards, in timber to across ridge tops, at every angle and presentation you can come up with. There are zero (0) angles or shot presentations that I would take with a “insert whatever caliber and bullet”, that I wouldn’t take with a good .224 bullet.

All you do is show willful ignorance nearly everytime you post on this subject. Whether it is an outright refusal to read the entire thread you are posting so that you can see your arguments or laughably incorrect and disproven dozens of times; or in talking about bullets and things you haven’t even used.

 

[Brap01]

As tragic as that was…totally worth it for the memes.
Still haven’t laughed as hard as I did watching that thread.

Got a link to that thread?

 

[PNWGATOR]

I imagine a 30/06 with a good controlled expansion bullet would penetrate deeper than a 77gr bullet that doesn’t even exist…





Again- why definitely state things you haven’t done? I’ve killed or been present for the killing of somewhere between 40-60 elk with 22cals- from 30’ish yards to 803 yards, in timber to across ridge tops, at every angle and presentation you can come up with. There are zero (0) angles or shot presentations that I would take with a “insert whatever caliber and bullet”, that I wouldn’t take with a good .224 bullet.

All you do is show willful ignorance nearly everytime you post on this subject. Whether it is an outright refusal to read the entire thread you are posting so that you can see your arguments or laughably incorrect and disproven dozens of times; or in talking about bullets and things you haven’t even used.

It gets exhausting!

 

[Phinehas25]

I don't know how one defines a "good controlled expansion bullet" , but there is no question that a 180 grain remington core lokt out of a 30-06 leaves a much larger wound channel and penetrates deeper than a 77 tmk out of a 223.

I have used both. There is no comparison. That said I prefer the 223 and tmk these days.