.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Billy Goat]

I mean, page 223 deserves a meme anyways.

 

[fwafwow]

I mean, page 223 deserves a meme anyways.

View attachment 607007

Great meme. One of my favorite TV shows growing up! I have to give credit to him though, since he chose his RS handle based on that car.

He does indirectly raise a good question - do taco farts improve accuracy? I've often wondered if they scare deer away, but if they improve accuracy, then I'm all for them. With a bean burrito chaser. Time for a poll?

 

[Billy Goat]

Yalls taco farts are different than mine.


I ain't too comfortable afterwards, warm maybe.

 

[wind gypsy]

what's not surprising is when the intellect of someone's posts matches their screen name.

Shots fired!

 

[General RE LEE]

surprisingly, a LRH poster contributed meaningfully over there. He was cutting apart different bullets, and had a good explanation with measurements to show how from a jacket profile, the sierra gameking (a bullet i love <3000 fps impact) is actually a lead tipped matchking, the tmk is the plastic tipped matchking, and the tipped gameking is actually a plastic tipped prohunter - a bullet i never really liked.

what's not surprising is when the intellect of someone's posts matches their screen name.

I’m sure I’m not alone when I say .223 is not high on my list of cartridges I am going to choose for deer hunting.

Also, the Form fan boyism is impressive to watch.

 

[xsn10s]

surprisingly, a LRH poster contributed meaningfully over there. He was cutting apart different bullets, and had a good explanation with measurements to show how from a jacket profile, the sierra gameking (a bullet i love <3000 fps impact) is actually a lead tipped matchking, the tmk is the plastic tipped matchking, and the tipped gameking is actually a plastic tipped prohunter - a bullet i never really liked.

what's not surprising is when the intellect of someone's posts matches their screen name.

It's becoming an echo chamber over there. If you disagree with a certain group the Alinsky tactics come out.

 

[xsn10s]

I’m sure I’m not alone when I say .223 is not high on my list of cartridges I am going to choose for deer hunting.

Also, the Form fan boyism is impressive to watch.

I wouldn't have considered a .223/5.56 a bear, deer, elk round. Maybe deer but certainly not anything bigger. But after looking at the terminal performance pictures on here I'm very surprised. People said the same thing about using Berger match bullets for hunting years ago. i kept an open mind then, I'll do so now.

 

[General RE LEE]

It's becoming an echo chamber over there. If you disagree with a certain group the Alinsky tactics come out.

About like here if you disagree with Form or say something to the contrary

 

[xsn10s]

About like here if you disagree with Form or say something to the contrary

Well I expect him to rebut any disagreements. If it moves to personal attacks then we'd have to look at who drew first blood. I haven't been on here long enough to observe Form long enough. I'll say this I did purchase a SWFA 6X after reading some of his reviews. I like it but it's still not the greatest scope. I'm surprised on it's clarity. But I do notice some fisheye. I haven't had it for long so after using if for a year or so I'll decide on it. I might like it better than my side focus SWFA 10X. But to me the glass is on par with Leupold VariXII. Useable, but there are better scopes. I'm glad to have a Japanese made scope for the price.

 

[kkp005]

Damn. Sorry to hear that.

Based on my experience, if you hit that hog in the front half, it’s dead.

Hate when this happens to animals regardless of the projectile and caliber.

Yeah. Everything thing I’ve shot with TMK’s has been absolutely wrecked when I open them up and look inside. I have no doubt that it’s dead. In open country I probably would have watched it drop within 50-60 yards… but where I am, 50-60 yards in thick cover can make stuff really hard to find. The few animals that I shot that actually ran have bled pretty good.. but it seems like they don’t really start pumping any out until running 20-30 yards or so

 

[JohnDough]

At this point, Im just rage quitting TMK. I bought some way back in the day when it first became a thing from Black Hills. I recall that it grouped like trash in known 1moa guns. I am a 1moa shooter behind an AR pattern rifle with 4x or more magnification. 10 shot groups, prone, off the magazine, or from a bench off a bag. Its just what my personal limits are. I typically can pull near mechanical accuracy from a typical AR system (weapon + ammo).



Anyway, today my new Black Hills 77gr TMK 5.56 arrived. A whole case of the beautiful stuff. I promptly loaded up my 11.5" SBR and headed to my back yard. This is the result at 100 yards.



Trash. But hey, maybe I am off. Maybe the weapon has developed an issue. Big doubt, but whatever. I trudged back to the house and grabbed 10 rounds of 70gr TSX. I stuffed it in the weapon and walked back, plopped down, and hammered this out.


I did not feel any more or less zen with either group, nor did I call any pulled shots. The groups are what they are. The 70gr TSX is pushing 2550fps 10ft from my muzzle based on my last records with this lot, and Im going to keep the sub-1.7moa round and forget about the 3.5+ moa round, no matter how wonderful you all say and show me it is, terminally. 2550 at the muzzle gets me to 300 with decent expansion from the 70 TSX with a 5" group. At 300 the TMK gets me a group over 10" across, assuming linear progression of dispersion.

 

[mt terry d]

Also, the Form fan boyism is impressive to watch.

Also, the Form fan boyism is impressive to watch.

If you've ever met him you'd know there is nothing about him or the rag-tag crowd* he hangs out with that inspires "fanboy-ism" in any way. That is if you discount his dimples and blonde waist-length locks flowing gently in a half value 15 mph breeze.

(*except the guy in crocs, who I'm pretty sure really isn't totally gay )

But to ignore the facts, tested information and evidence he has would be foolish.

 

[Drenalin]

At this point, Im just rage quitting TMK.

How many rounds are you selling?

 

[JohnDough]

Gratuitous range picture to explain the shooting situation. I just used the mag as a monopod.

 

[JohnDough]

How many rounds are you selling?

The case. By my count thats 470 rounds total in 9 full 50 round boxes, and the remainder of the 10th box. I used 30 rounds for my evaluation. I say used, because I loaded a full pmag, and backpressure from the can dusted the mag pretty ugly.

 

[JohnDough]

Wait...can I not edit posts? I wanted to add a photo to the above.

 

[fwafwow]

About like here if you disagree with Form or say something to the contrary

I tend to agree with Form (and the many others) who have posted in this thread in support of 223 as an option when the correct projectile is chosen. But I am trying to make sure I'm not in my own echo chamber, so I would love to see someone who has disagreed with him (or the views), or said something to the contrary, that was based on logic or anything other than historic custom. I personally believe that almost every topic is subject to nuance, so I welcome any exceptions or differing points of view - at least if based on data.

I don't recall any of your posts, so these are not directed at you, but "everyone knows you need X ft lbs of energy", "respect the animal", "margin of error" or similar bases for disagreement have not, IMHO, held up to the responses (and are usually just met with "I'm bowing out of this pi$$ing contest" or similar replies).

About the only cogent pushback (at least that I can remember at the moment) was the question posed (I believe by @Marbles ) about the effectiveness of a 223 77gr TMK on the skull of a brown bear.

If you, or anyone, can summarize a contrary point of view, I'm all ears - and expect I'm not alone.

 

[Formidilosus]

At this point, Im just rage quitting TMK. I bought some way back in the day when it first became a thing from Black Hills. I recall that it grouped like trash in known 1moa guns. I am a 1moa shooter behind an AR pattern rifle with 4x or more magnification. 10 shot groups, prone, off the magazine, or from a bench off a bag. Its just what my personal limits are. I typically can pull near mechanical accuracy from a typical AR system (weapon + ammo).



Anyway, today my new Black Hills 77gr TMK 5.56 arrived. A whole case of the beautiful stuff. I promptly loaded up my 11.5" SBR and headed to my back yard. This is the result at 100 yards.
View attachment 607045


Trash. But hey, maybe I am off. Maybe the weapon has developed an issue. Big doubt, but whatever. I trudged back to the house and grabbed 10 rounds of 70gr TSX. I stuffed it in the weapon and walked back, plopped down, and hammered this out.
View attachment 607047

I did not feel any more or less zen with either group, nor did I call any pulled shots. The groups are what they are. The 70gr TSX is pushing 2550fps 10ft from my muzzle based on my last records with this lot, and Im going to keep the sub-1.7moa round and forget about the 3.5+ moa round, no matter how wonderful you all say and show me it is, terminally. 2550 at the muzzle gets me to 300 with decent expansion from the 70 TSX with a 5" group. At 300 the TMK gets me a group over 10" across, assuming linear progression of dispersion.

What are barrel specs- twist, brand, etc; and how many rounds on it?

 

[N2TRKYS]

After some tweaking to the Tikka factory stock, I found a load that it’ll shoot accurately. Now, I just have to find a deer to shoot this season to test it out.

 

[JohnDough]

What are barrel specs- twist, brand, etc; and how many rounds on it?

Years ago, it was a DDM4 chrome lined CHF 16.1" barrel with about 8K through it. 1/7 twist with surefire 556-212 suppressor.
Today it was a KAC 11.5" barrel, 1/7 twist, CHF, chrome lined, with QDC 556 KAC suppressor.