.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

LimeSpoon

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Nov 25, 2020
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23
M855 doesn't consistently and substantially outpenetrate many handgun rounds, at least not in muscle tissue. The "short NL" (neck length) example shown here is probably somewhat closer to the average wound profile at M4 muzzle velocities, and it's about as deep as many handgun hollowpoints go.

Handgun JHPs designed for deeper penetration like the Critical Duty loadings out of standard service calibers as well as the 10mm 200 gr Gold Dot and HST loadings are likely to push it more into the 15-18" range, closer to the "long NL" M855 profile.

To give some explanation, long NL is what happens when the bullet travels point forward for a longer period of time and takes a while to yaw and fragment; this occurs unpredictably and is more of the minority of situations at M4 muzzle velocities.

Occasionally M855 will simply fail to fragment at all even above its nominal velocity threshold and in this case may attain 20+ inches of penetration, this is far from reliable though (but does occur often enough to make it a rather poor 5.56 hunting/antipersonnel round, at least comparatively). It also results in narrow wounding.

It's possible that greentip may realize a more notable advantage when passing through harder tissue types (and perhaps ironically, possibly also lung, as the high shear strength of lung tissue is likely to be of minimal importance at higher travel velocities while the lower density vs muscle tissue reduces resistance), this is harder to verify however. Barrier performance of the M855 through such things like car doors and auto glass actually tends to be rather unspectacular.

smallcal.jpg

Graphic courtesy of Martin Fackler and Fr. Frog's website.
 
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BigNate

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Dec 24, 2020
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Athol, Id. USA
This is way off topic, (bear defense) but I do agree I'd feel better about stopping a charge with an m4 than any handgun. M855 would not be my choice of ammo though.
Picking a proven combination is smart. There are a few bullets I would consider, but if faced with the choice today the 77 tmk would be it.
 

2531usmc

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Apr 5, 2021
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LimeSpoon,

Thank you for the well reasoned response backed up by data. That went a long way towards answering a question I’ve been asking myself for a long time.

so refreshing and unusual to see an Internet response like yours. Normally the response is something along the lines of “that sucks”.
 

260madman

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Dec 15, 2017
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WI
Took a doe at about 310 yards this afternoon with an 18” AR. 77gr TMK did it’s job and made the lungs mush. Through and through and a blood trail Ray Charles could follow. Blood trail was instant and quite a bit of hair. Doe died a bit short of where my daughters buck died so a short blood trail.

Should have had this on video. Was sleeting today and the objective was iced over but still had a half way decent view through the spotter. I set it up for my camera man and told him just follow the big one and he decided to zoom in my phone for some reason so the video is crap and he couldn’t find anything through it. It was uneventful so I don’t have any stills to post from it, just grainy crap. He was trying to find deer with the equivalent of 72x at 315 yards :(:rolleyes:. Maybe next year.
 

DBL B

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Dec 31, 2021
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1
Elevated gun works has 500 rd cases of Blackhills loaded 77tmk for $675 if anyone’s interested.
 

Gorp2007

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Dec 4, 2016
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Southern Nevada
Decided to jump on the bandwagon and try to put something together for pigs in 2022. Couldn't find any XBR, so I loaded up my 77gr TMKs over IMR 4895. This is 23.8gr at 200 yards out of a 14.5" AR.
2f972cd75a5d925b17f0b87728bbb804.jpg
 

260madman

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Had a lot of time on my hands this morning from 330-900 so I selected some pics and edited the best I could give my camera man’s complete failure.

Red spot over the shoulder is bullet exit and blood
84B800F0-9E80-494F-BF85-89DD49287FDD.jpeg

The red on the side is blood spray from the exit
C8FB64BE-B1DB-47A3-8A3D-7ACB52136236.jpeg
 

260madman

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Saw some Lever today. Price was
not to my liking but if 8208 doesnt become available I may have to switch. Anybody switched to Lever or used it from the start and not liked it?
 

260madman

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Well poop. More research required for a replacement I guess or patience. I’ll gravitate to patience.
 
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Probably wouldn’t be an issue for you there, extreme heat is too common here
By all reports it is great for heavy bullets in 223 but can get a bit peaky when ammo gets hot, as in really hot from being in a hot vehicle
 

Nomosendero

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
Apr 21, 2021
Messages
249
Probably wouldn’t be an issue for you there, extreme heat is too common here
By all reports it is great for heavy bullets in 223 but can get a bit peaky when ammo gets hot, as in really hot from being in a hot vehicle
Something I would have to watch too !
 

260madman

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Probably wouldn’t be an issue for you there, extreme heat is too common here
By all reports it is great for heavy bullets in 223 but can get a bit peaky when ammo gets hot, as in really hot from being in a hot vehicle
Summers are 100 occasionally every year and winters are common at -30 or colder. I’ve been coyote hunting at -25 and worked my job outdoors at -46.
 

260madman

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Dunno how you can live that way, too cold for me:)
Lever won’t do you wrong in those conditions
when it’s -30 overnight it warms up to -5 during the day and the sun will shine!

Maybe i‘ll ask the short guy in Alaska about Lever.
 

Higbean

FNG
Joined
Sep 23, 2012
Messages
65
Finally got my hands on some Hornady Match dies for my TMKs. Any pet loads out there? I am running out of my black hills factories. Will be shot out of my hobbit inspired TC build. 20" barrel 1:7 twist.
Zl8tFSX.jpg
Been slowly reading through this thread, and the above pic is far and away THE most shocking thing posted!

.223 on elk pshhhh!

Thompson Center/AR/spiral fluted and threaded bbl/camo fore end?

HOLY SCHIDT!

;)
 
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