.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Gorp2007]

Decided to jump on the bandwagon and try to put something together for pigs in 2022. Couldn't find any XBR, so I loaded up my 77gr TMKs over IMR 4895. This is 23.8gr at 200 yards out of a 14.5" AR.

 

[260madman]

Had a lot of time on my hands this morning from 330-900 so I selected some pics and edited the best I could give my camera man’s complete failure.

Red spot over the shoulder is bullet exit and blood


The red on the side is blood spray from the exit

 

[Nomosendero]

Well, that one should be easy to find!

 

[260madman]

Saw some Lever today. Price was
not to my liking but if 8208 doesnt become available I may have to switch. Anybody switched to Lever or used it from the start and not liked it?

 

[Castle Rock]

Too temperature sensitive for use here

 

[260madman]

Well poop. More research required for a replacement I guess or patience. I’ll gravitate to patience.

 

[Castle Rock]

Probably wouldn’t be an issue for you there, extreme heat is too common here
By all reports it is great for heavy bullets in 223 but can get a bit peaky when ammo gets hot, as in really hot from being in a hot vehicle

 

[Nomosendero]

Probably wouldn’t be an issue for you there, extreme heat is too common here
By all reports it is great for heavy bullets in 223 but can get a bit peaky when ammo gets hot, as in really hot from being in a hot vehicle

Something I would have to watch too !

 

[260madman]

Probably wouldn’t be an issue for you there, extreme heat is too common here
By all reports it is great for heavy bullets in 223 but can get a bit peaky when ammo gets hot, as in really hot from being in a hot vehicle

Summers are 100 occasionally every year and winters are common at -30 or colder. I’ve been coyote hunting at -25 and worked my job outdoors at -46.

 

[Castle Rock]

Dunno how you can live that way, too cold for me
Lever won’t do you wrong in those conditions

 

[260madman]

Dunno how you can live that way, too cold for me
Lever won’t do you wrong in those conditions

when it’s -30 overnight it warms up to -5 during the day and the sun will shine!

Maybe i‘ll ask the short guy in Alaska about Lever.

 

[Higbean]

Finally got my hands on some Hornady Match dies for my TMKs. Any pet loads out there? I am running out of my black hills factories. Will be shot out of my hobbit inspired TC build. 20" barrel 1:7 twist.

Been slowly reading through this thread, and the above pic is far and away THE most shocking thing posted!

.223 on elk pshhhh!

Thompson Center/AR/spiral fluted and threaded bbl/camo fore end?

HOLY SCHIDT!

 

[Hoopleheader]

This is an interesting thread. It would still be close to my last choice given all of the cartridge options we have, but I read roughly 15-20 pages to understand why the 77gr TMK was considered such a wonder pill, as at first glance, I don’t see why a lighter but tougher bullet wouldn’t do just as well.

Ignoring external ballistics, a high SD, lightly constructed bullet pushed at moderate velocities will shed enough weight to cause sufficient wounding via expansion and fragmentation, but should retain enough mass due to a high starting point to penetrate adequately.

I don’t see why this wouldn’t work, but would have a nagging concern over what happens when shoulders are hit on larger specimens, even in fragile deer. There are, however, positive examples in this thread.

Consider this a rare win for changing someone’s mind. People could have been kinder to each other though…

 

[Formidilosus]

I don’t see why this wouldn’t work, but would have a nagging concern over what happens when shoulders are hit on larger specimens, even in fragile deer. There are, however, positive examples in this thread.

Consider this a rare win for changing someone’s mind. People could have been kinder to each other though…

That’s good. Bullets change over time, our understanding of what happens and how to optimize them do as well.

Of the shoulder issue, did you read the whole thread? There are several elk and a moose with scapula and major bone hits.

 

[Hoopleheader]

That’s good. Bullets change over time, our understanding of what happens and how to optimize them do as well.

Of the shoulder issue, did you read the whole thread? There are several elk and a moose with scapula and major bone hits.

I didn’t get through the whole thing yet, as it is very long.

I do not not doubt that there has been positive examples on shoulder shots. Where my head is going is that this bullet ,TMK, appears to be a standard cup and core design. While I have not personally seen bullets of similar design “blow up” and fail to expand in larger calibers, there are enough accounts of it happening in larger calibers that I trust that it does occur, even if at a low rate. That is where my reservation would come from.

For what it is worth, what I described about heavy for caliber, lightly constructed bullets is far from a new understanding. I believe my first issue of Gun Digest from 20-25 years ago had a neat article from a guy who decided after some experimentation that a 1917 Enfield in 30-06 using ancient 220 gr SP RN was the perfect “medium bore” foul weather backup rifle to his trusty .375 HH…. for elk.

I think what has changed is the long range shooting craze teaching us that heavy bullets are good for distance shooting and low velocities and tough bullets don’t mix well. And people not being afraid to admit that they are recoil sensitive after starting out on heavy ARs that bruise shoulders as much as a baby farting in my face gives me a black eye.

I’d rather have a thread like this informing hunters who are going to use 223s what works best…if not being the best choice, it is going to happen due to the rate of ownership.

 

[PNWGATOR]

FWIW, based on my first hand experience and the vast experience of others who’ve contribute to this thread, the 77TMK out of a .223 would be my first choice for EVERY animal on the North American continent if I was keeping all of my shots inside of 450 yds.

 

[Hoopleheader]

FWIW, based on my first hand experience and the vast experience of others who’ve contribute to this thread, the 77TMK out of a .223 would be my first choice for EVERY animal on the North American continent if I was keeping all of my shots inside of 450 yds.

More power to you. Just be sure to keep an open mind if in fact you do experience poor performance at some point.

I conviceced myself I needed tough as nails bullets at one point, but found over time I preferred a construction that both expanded violently and held together to create a hole on the other side for effect on game and ease of tracking. Keep in mind I just described a Nosler partition.

That said, I also have kept an open mind and decided it was better to avoid feeding my family a neurotoxin and switched to Barnes and aim for shoulders.

 

[Moose83]

Possibly a dumb question. ... can you load 75gr eld-m to fit in a factory tikka mag? They are the only thing I have available to me here locally that are reasonably priced. I've found exactly one source for 77 tmk's here in Canada but they will be close to $80/100 by the time they get to me so not exactly conducive to volume practice. Thanks.

 

[Sandstrom]

Possibly a dumb question. ... can you load 75gr eld-m to fit in a factory tikka mag? They are the only thing I have available to me here locally that are reasonably priced. I've found exactly one source for 77 tmk's here in Canada but they will be close to $80/100 by the time they get to me so not exactly conducive to volume practice. Thanks.

According to Hornady, the 73 eldm and the 75 bthp will be fine loaded at mag length. The 75 eldm and amax are designed to be longer.
Hope this helps!
Ryan

 

[Juan_ID]

Possibly a dumb question. ... can you load 75gr eld-m to fit in a factory tikka mag? They are the only thing I have available to me here locally that are reasonably priced. I've found exactly one source for 77 tmk's here in Canada but they will be close to $80/100 by the time they get to me so not exactly conducive to volume practice. Thanks.

I loaded some 75gr eldm’s at mag length and accuracy wasn’t even close when compared to the rounds that were longer.