Wyoming long range hunting debate

[ThorM465]

So less and less people will get tags and the wait line will grow exponentially, vs. making us use less effective weapons and issuing more tags to achieve the same harvest numbers

If that means less wounded animals then yes.

 

[Hnthrdr]

So it’s less about making sure our ungulate population is growing and more about making sure hunters can still get tags?

We’ve been through this multiple times….the number of long range hunters killing animals is minuscule and if the populations are hinging on a range restriction, the animals shouldn’t be hunted in the first place.

Band-aid fixes and feel good measures aren’t going to fix things. Winter range habitat, better management, etc are what’s going to make a difference.

Well we will get to see what it does since it’s going to get implemented here soon in a couple states. I think it’s a balance between opportunity, growing the herd & not over harvesting as much, maybe not allowing peak tech during animals most vulnerable periods , and of course habit improvement, predator management etc, which is why it’s always a complete approach.

 

[ThorM465]

So it’s less about making sure our ungulate population is growing and more about making sure hunters can still get tags?

We’ve been through this multiple times….the number of long range hunters killing animals is minuscule and if the populations are hinging on a range restriction, the animals shouldn’t be hunted in the first place.

Band-aid fixes and feel good measures aren’t going to fix things. Winter range habitat, better management, etc are what’s going to make a difference.

This has been stated many times but way more animals are wounded/lost at less than 300yds vs over. So, how about we make it that if you wound an animal and don’t recover it your tag has been punched. More animals would be saved by that than animals taken at “long range”.

I agree with this 1,000%. However, we have to ask ourselves whether this can be enforced?

 

[Flyjunky]

I agree with this 1,000%. However, we have to ask ourselves whether this can be enforced?

No, neither can be enforced.

I look at it like the 2A arguments. Until root causes are fixed everything else is window dressing.

 

[Hnthrdr]

No, neither can be enforced.

I look at it like the 2A arguments. Until root causes are fixed everything else is window dressing.

Limiting tech is easily enough enforced

 

[Flyjunky]

Limiting tech is easily enough enforced

Yes, if you limit the tech but I’m sure there are many companies who will have something to say about that.

Once again though, what do you think the % of long range hunters killing game actually is? What is the percentage of animals killed over 600? Do you think the same number of animals will be killed, just at shorter range?

Since this is all about having more animals to hunt I’d like to also have implemented no rut hunts of any kind for mule deer and elk. Those hunts are when the animals are most vulnerable and, in the case of mule deer, right before they have to endure the winter months. Why put additional stress on them during that time of year? Eliminating those hunts should help keep more animals around, we can put those rut hunt tags into other hunts so we don’t lose tag numbers.

 

[CMP70306]

So less and less people will get tags and the wait line will grow exponentially, vs. making us use less effective weapons and issuing more tags to achieve the same harvest numbers

On the flip side an issued tag without a harvest at the end of the season means the hunter really just had a camping trip with extra expenses.

Personally I would prefer 100% of tags get punched and everyone else just goes hiking to look at the animals vs a large number of people burning money and opportunities on tags they never get to punch.

 

[Hnthrdr]

On the flip side an issued tag without a harvest at the end of the season means the hunter really just had a camping trip with extra expenses.

Personally I would prefer 100% of tags get punched and everyone else just goes hiking to look at the animals vs a large number of people burning money and opportunities on tags they never get to punch.

Hunting is the definition of a camping trip with extra expenses. Unless you high fence hunt there is 0 guarantee to kill. If you are getting that guarantee then you aren’t hunting anymore. Don’t you get a thrill from the challenge or do you just want to drive to a pasture and shoot a moo cow? Not being rude just saying there are no guarantees in hunting wild animals

 

[CMP70306]

Hunting is the definition of a camping trip with extra expenses. Unless you high fence hunt there is 0 guarantee to kill. If you are getting that guarantee then you aren’t hunting anymore. Don’t you get a thrill from the challenge or do you just want to drive to a pasture and shoot a moo cow? Not being rude just saying there are no guarantees in hunting wild animals

I don’t mind arbitrarily limiting my effectiveness in my home state where I get several deer tags and the opportunity to hunt every weekend from October through mid January. I’m pretty much guaranteed to kill at least one deer in the dozen or more days I go hunting each year but I have no idea if it will be a doe on a cool October evening during muzzleloader, a buck just after shooting light the opening day of rifle season in November or a deer busting out of the brush during a deer drive on a snowy January day.

So even though I’m pretty much guaranteed to kill one at some point that unknown of the how and when is what keeps things interesting from year to year. And if my luck runs out and I get skunked for the first time in 20 years it cost me a whopping $54 for my deer hunting licenses last year and I’ll get another dozen more opportunities next year and a dozen more the year after that.

But a big game western hunt would probably cost me $10,000+ and with more and more states making non resident tags harder to draw I would realistically be looking at a western trip maybe once a decade. If I don’t punch my tag on that trip it would be years before I could go again and I’d be down to only a few more chances in my lifetime to do it again.

 

[Hnthrdr]

I don’t mind arbitrarily limiting my effectiveness in my home state where I get several deer tags and the opportunity to hunt every weekend from October through mid January. I’m pretty much guaranteed to kill at least one deer in the dozen or more days I go hunting each year but I have no idea if it will be a doe on a cool October evening during muzzleloader, a buck just after shooting light the opening day of rifle season in November or a deer busting out of the brush during a deer drive on a snowy January day.

So even though I’m pretty much guaranteed to kill one at some point that unknown of the how and when is what keeps things interesting from year to year. And if my luck runs out and I get skunked for the first time in 20 years it cost me a whopping $54 for my deer hunting licenses last year and I’ll get another dozen more opportunities next year and a dozen more the year after that.

But a big game western hunt would probably cost me $10,000+ and with more and more states making non resident tags harder to draw I would realistically be looking at a western trip maybe once a decade. If I don’t punch my tag on that trip it would be years before I could go again and I’d be down to only a few more chances in my lifetime to do it again.

10k are you using a guide?
Seem like you could do it for much cheaper, the west (Co) is my backyard, I don’t feel like I am handicapped by using less tech or hunting non rut hunts, our seasons are often short and I’ll only get 4-5 days for deer and maybe a bit more for elk, love the fact that it’s going into the unknown so to speak, I mean I know many units very well but never know what will happen year to year.

I am a non res in a few states I go to but never feel like I’m disadvantaged no matter the weapon I do know if someone said I could go every other year instead of once a decade but I have to limit my tech, I would much rather do that, that’s just me, to each his own as they say.

 

[CMP70306]

10k are you using a guide?
Seem like you could do it for much cheaper, the west (Co) is my backyard, I don’t feel like I am handicapped by using less tech or hunting non rut hunts, our seasons are often short and I’ll only get 4-5 days for deer and maybe a bit more for elk, love the fact that it’s going into the unknown so to speak, I mean I know many units very well but never know what will happen year to year.

I am a non res in a few states I go to but never feel like I’m disadvantaged no matter the weapon I do know if someone said I could go every other year instead of once a decade but I have to limit my tech, I would much rather do that, that’s just me, to each his own as they say.

$10k is a ballpark number, it cost my wife and I almost $9k to visit Yellowstone for 6 days and we weren’t staying anywhere or doing anything particularly expensive. Add in tags, shipping to get the meat back and all the other expenses and it’s at least $10k to leave PA for a western hunt.

 

[Hnthrdr]

$10k is a ballpark number, it cost my wife and I almost $9k to visit Yellowstone for 6 days and we weren’t staying anywhere or doing anything particularly expensive. Add in tags, shipping to get the meat back and all the other expenses and it’s at least $10k to leave PA for a western hunt.

Gotcha, if you camp and own most of your gear already I think you could do it for about a 1:3 of that, but I get it, hunting out of state isn’t cheap

 

[cuerro viejo]

Limiting tech is easily enough enforced

Only thing really you could limit is electronics. I bet there are less wounded animal with adaptations of electronics then Kentucky windage and MPBR

 

[Hnthrdr]

Only thing really you could limit is electronics. I bet there are less wounded animal with adaptations of electronics then Kentucky windage and MPBR

Potentially, I know for a fact that range guesstimation is a a skill that is all but extinct, mil reticles can help, but never exact. I do think most people would want to get closer if they weren’t sure I know I would

 

[Diamondback]

Oh they can limit electronics, scope magnification, rifle cartridges, monolitic only, if they really want to. There are some states that totally prohibit the use of rifle cartridges for hunting. Give it 20 years and some areas turn into " little California" on aspects if you don't show up to vote. I never thought I would see things in Texas or Colorado on how it was back in 1980's, but it is here today in 2025.

Eric Cortina runs a 500 yard cold bore Ethical Hunter Challenge, based at 1 MOA accuracy where people show up with all types of custom rifles to shoot from prone = No equipment rules or limitations. It's humbling to see how just a little bit of wind can throw everything off at 500.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Oh they can limit electronics, scope magnification, rifle cartridges, monolitic only, if they really want to. There are some states that totally prohibit the use of rifle cartridges for hunting. Give it 20 years and some areas turn into " little California" on aspects if you don't show up to vote. I never thought I would see things in Texas or Colorado on how it was back in 1980's, but it is here today in 2025.

Eric Cortina runs a 500 yard cold bore Ethical Hunter Challenge, based at 1 MOA accuracy where people show up with all types of custom rifles to shoot from prone = No equipment rules or limitations. It's humbling to see how just a little bit of wind can throw everything off at 500.

Truth man, it’s fun to have these discussions with other hunters but we have to have a united front against anti’s

 

[wind gypsy]

Yes, if you limit the tech but I’m sure there are many companies who will have something to say about that.

Once again though, what do you think the % of long range hunters killing game actually is? What is the percentage of animals killed over 600? Do you think the same number of animals will be killed, just at shorter range?

Since this is all about having more animals to hunt I’d like to also have implemented no rut hunts of any kind for mule deer and elk. Those hunts are when the animals are most vulnerable and, in the case of mule deer, right before they have to endure the winter months. Why put additional stress on them during that time of year? Eliminating those hunts should help keep more animals around, we can put those rut hunt tags into other hunts so we don’t lose tag numbers.

Don't disagree with avoiding the MT model of rut hunting the piss out of muleys with rifles but WY is already on that train for the most part.

Rut hunting is awesome. I think there should be some opportunities to do it. But much like technology - in specific instances/tags where it's logically degrading quality hunting opportunities for lots of people, it should be curtailed.

 

[wind gypsy]

I agree with your point. That is why I also pointed out our super fast cartridges were around decades before high power scopes were the norm.

I don't think fair chase is an ethic.

I think it is an abstract construct. I've known people who could not shoot a deer at 100 yards with a scoped rifle. I've known people who could not shoot a deer at 25 yards with a compound bow.

To them, the deer had the advantage no matter the situation.

Even a 2,000 yard sniper doesn't have a chance if a deer doesn't come out of the brush until dark.

I've had days I shot an antelope 20 minutes into a hunt, and seasons I did not get a shot on an elk after 15 days of sitting.

If you want to make fair chase an ethical issue, I think the knowledge and skill to find animals is the reward to a skilled hunter. I completely separate this from the means to make a clean kill. Id rather see you make a good shot at 600 yards than take a 100 yards brush shot and have your bullet deflect several feet off of course.



NO!

It has hurt it.

I see it every year in Wyoming.

Grumpy old timers will zoom all over on roads on a side by side 4 wheeler for days on end and never see the trophy mule deer that was 300 yards below them out of sight from the road.

It's impossible to find bedded mule deer in juniper, mahogany, or sage on the side of the hill in an afternoon shadow. One plot I hunt is full of people who drive up, bugle, glass, and drive away because they don't see the elk that are bedded and watching them.

I think most technologies now are sold as the end all of hunting, people buy into it and make themselves less successful as a result.

You guys sound exactly like when compound bows were going to kill every deer on the planet.

Then the cross bow was going to kill every deer on the planet.

I know people with inherited hunting rifles and simple binoculars who out hunt 90% of the hunters with expensive gear and expensive rifles simply by knowing where to be to take a shot in close range.

The people who have very expensive hunting gear and rifles always manage to convince me they are unsure of their hunting skills so they buy what's on the add to look like they know what they are doing. It's working. Retailers make thousands from them. Game and fish sells lots of thousand dollar out of state elk tags that are never filled. Study the fill rate for Wyoming tags. It's rather low.

Sure, there's lots of hunters who might buy some gear but still aren't effective hunters whether its effort, give-a-f, or just being lousy at it. But to pretend like technology in the form of information and mapping in addition to the glassing/shooting gear and info on how to improve competency isn't making lots of better than average hunters even more lethal or helping more people become decent hunters is hard to agree with.

 

[wind gypsy]

$10k is a ballpark number, it cost my wife and I almost $9k to visit Yellowstone for 6 days and we weren’t staying anywhere or doing anything particularly expensive. Add in tags, shipping to get the meat back and all the other expenses and it’s at least $10k to leave PA for a western hunt.

It's only that expensive if you choose for it to be. And you choosing to spend a bunch of money shouldn't entitle you to a thing when it comes to whether or not you kill an animal.

I used to go on 2-3 western big game hunts a year as a midwesterner and doubt i spent $10k annually any of those years that I didnt hire a guide.