.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Nomosendero]

Higher than average in my experience. Here’s a recent post of mine from another thread…

I’m up to somewhere around 40ish Tikka and Sako replacement barrels.

Most of them have shot as expected out of the box, however, I don’t normally put too much stock into the first 100 rounds. I’ll start getting a realistic and consistent velocity from the chrono at 100-200 rounds. Even with factory ammo and the large potential spreads.

When I used to clean my barrels I would wait at least 50 rounds before taking them on a big game killing trip. Probably not needed but it worked for me.

These days I don’t clean at all and I’ve found the barrels last the same amount of rounds or more usually within 200-300ish rounds before being “shot out”.

It doesn’t surprise me at all that your rifle shoots a bit better after a couple hundred rounds. I’ve seen this on multiple tikka and Sako barrels (not all barrels, but probably 20ish percent of them).

Good news with these barrels is, you never need to clean them, and they just keep on shooting very well.

My stainless 22” .243 Tikka barrel is finally dead after 7,000+ rounds. I just recently replaced a Tikka Stainless fluted .260 Rem barrel as well that made it 5,500+ rounds. A Sako stainless non-fluted .260 barrel made it 7,500+ rounds (my buddy in Finland who used to work for Sako at the time had me send it to him). A stainless fluted .204 Sako barrel made it 4,500 rounds before I bought a new one. A blued Sako 20” .223 barrel made it 8,000+ rounds.

Keep in mind that all of these barrels still functioned as expected and shot okay. They just didn’t meet accuracy/consistency specs needed any longer.

These are just a few examples of some round counts I had kept track of and had written down for a friend who was curious.

Never clean, interesting
I don't clean as often as I used to without issues, maybe I will try that.

 

[waspocrew]

Never clean, interesting
I don't clean as often as I used to without issues, maybe I will try that.

I’m at 1200 rounds on my 223 CTR - never cleaned the rifle and it’s still shooting very well.

 

[pilgrim7]

Sorry for the long response. Since beginning to read the thread I've started building an 18 inch 1/8 AR and have a 16.5 inch Ruger Ranch on the way . I'll be taking my wife out to get her first deer this season and can't think of a better set up to build good shooting fundamentals and keep her from developing a flinch. Both will be suppressed. Unfortunately my state requires .24 cal or larger for bears so I'll still be toting the old glue horse (t3x lite in .308) during concurrent seasons til my bear tag is filled. I've also got a boar hunt coming in Oct.

My shots are mostly going to be in thick timber and short (5-75 yds) with an occasional power line, strip mine, or ridge to ridge shot out to 250 or so. I'm thinking I'll go with a 62 gr fusion factory loads for both rifles, and shoot factory unless I can't find a load that is adequate at said ranges in both guns.

My question is, am I preventing any meat damage on <50 yard shots by dropping down to 62 gr fusion vs 77tmk? Id rather not go the copper route as I've had them do everything from pencil through at 100 yds with a .308 to leave an exit you could fit your fist in at 240 yds with a 6.5.

 

[BLJ]

@pilgrim7. I haven’t used the 62 Fusions on deer.
But, last year I killed deer with the 77 TMK from a RAR (2562 MV) and a 180 A Frame from a 308 (2510 MV). Both under 75 yards. Both caught ribs in and out.
I didn’t notice any difference in meat loss between the two deer.
Not a comparison between your chosen bullets, but maybe a representation showing that meat loss with the TMK is not that different than anything else. IME.
Wish I had some pictures.

 

[Formidilosus]

My question is, am I preventing any meat damage on <50 yard shots by dropping down to 62 gr fusion vs 77tmk?

In general, yes. Meat damage with 77gr TMK’s with pure rib/lung shots is minimal, however with scapula hits it can be pretty bad. The 62gr Fusion won’t kill quite as quickly when seen in large sample sizes, but is pretty solid and way better than monos.


A couple 62gr Fusion/Gold Dot deer-


300’ish yards if I recall correctly-





270’ish yards-





Since people like seeing bullets, both of these were sub 100y IIRC-

 

[KHntr]

Stone sheep hunt starts tomorrow gentlemen.
Kimber Montana 223 AI goes along this time, instead of my usual 280AI Mountain Ascent.

Was quite tempted to go with 77 TMK’s, but I have a suspicion I’m the first person to bust moose shoulders with an 88 ELD m, and a stronger suspicion I’m the first guy to do it two years running. Adding a Stone to that would be icing on the cake.

However, 223 cartridges being as small as they are, it’s no big deal to carry a jag of each. Might as well stuff that little Montana with TMK’s for the walk in.

 

[Grundy53]

Stone sheep hunt starts tomorrow gentlemen.
Kimber Montana 223 AI goes along this time, instead of my usual 280AI Mountain Ascent.

Was quite tempted to go with 77 TMK’s, but I have a suspicion I’m the first person to bust moose shoulders with an 88 ELD m, and a stronger suspicion I’m the first guy to do it two years running. Adding a Stone to that would be icing on the cake.

However, 223 cartridges being as small as they are, it’s no big deal to carry a jag of each. Might as well stuff that little Montana with TMK’s for the walk in.

Can't wait for some pictures!

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

 

[Reddish]

Sorry for the long response. Since beginning to read the thread I've started building an 18 inch 1/8 AR and have a 16.5 inch Ruger Ranch on the way . I'll be taking my wife out to get her first deer this season and can't think of a better set up to build good shooting fundamentals and keep her from developing a flinch. Both will be suppressed. Unfortunately my state requires .24 cal or larger for bears so I'll still be toting the old glue horse (t3x lite in .308) during concurrent seasons til my bear tag is filled. I've also got a boar hunt coming in Oct.

My shots are mostly going to be in thick timber and short (5-75 yds) with an occasional power line, strip mine, or ridge to ridge shot out to 250 or so. I'm thinking I'll go with a 62 gr fusion factory loads for both rifles, and shoot factory unless I can't find a load that is adequate at said ranges in both guns.

My question is, am I preventing any meat damage on <50 yard shots by dropping down to 62 gr fusion vs 77tmk? Id rather not go the copper route as I've had them do everything from pencil through at 100 yds with a .308 to leave an exit you could fit your fist in at 240 yds with a 6.5.

Federal Fusion 62gr and 62gr Gold Dots haven’t caused excessive meat loss for me. I’ve killed quite a few deer with them now.

 

[Erebor]

At 400 max I’d absolutely go for it. A .223 will do the job.

 

[Don Fischer]

DON'T HAVE TIME TO READ 176 PAGES? HERE'S THE CHEAT SHEET.

---

“Bullets matter more than headstamps.”

“Spent primers offer the supreme tutorial”.

I’ve read it here and elsewhere online. It got my attention. I started digging and asking questions and listened.

The 77gr TMK delivered by a .223 is where I ended up after many discussions and objective data regarding bullet performance and numerous pics of field results.

Now for the delivery system. Accurate. Repeatable. Reliable. Reasonable weight to afford steady shot placement and the ability to spot my own impacts yet packable. Tikka T3x, vertical grip, Sportsmatch rings, SWFA 6x MQ in mills. Replaced the trigger spring with a yo Dave, adjusted to my liking, then degreased everything and locked all of the screws down with loctite and got started.

The package checks all of the boxes. Plus, it’s FUN! Time at the range is spent learning to call wind, trigger control, spotting your own impacts and figuring out why a shot did or did not end up where you wanted it. No brake. No flinch. Inexpensive to shoot. The fun factor plus the ability to be able to afford to shoot a lot goes a long way to learning and understanding shooting, accuracy and precision.

With all of that said, I’ve decided to use 77 TMK out of a .223 from this delivery system for bear, deer and elk this season.

Opportunity presented itself a couple of days ago. I killed a mature, dry sow with the 77 TMK. Bullet performance exceeded all expectations! The terminal performance is on par with anything I’ve seen in a .284 or .30. Unreal performance. The bullet is a BEAST!

Practice will continue throughout the summer in preparation for the upcoming deer and elk seasons.

Based on my sample of one, the 77 TMK out of a .223 is truly a lethal combination well suited to a dedicated lower 48 big game rifle.

Would love to hear about others experiences with this bullet or similar bulletts!

I'd read years ago that Eskomo's prefered rifle was the 22 hornet. Don't know if that true or not but I would not try that. I think with the right circumstances and bullet selection and bullet placement it would work. Other cartridges give better selections of bullets and placement. I don't know if anyone is aware of it or not but the Eskomo's do run into Polar bears now and then and I understand they are bigger and tuffer than Grizzlys.

 

[WRO]

I'd read years ago that Eskomo's prefered rifle was the 22 hornet. Don't know if that true or not but I would not try that. I think with the right circumstances and bullet selection and bullet placement it would work. Other cartridges give better selections of bullets and placement. I don't know if anyone is aware of it or not but the Eskomo's do run into Polar bears now and then and I understand they are bigger and tuffer than Grizzlys.

They shoot most as head shots at close range.


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[The Guide]

Got a chance to go shoot the AAC ammo I ordered. Did not shoot for groups as it was pushing sunset and I was playing with my Xero Crono trying to learn it as this was my first time using it. I shot a 5 shot string for speeds using the Black Hills 5.56 77tmk as a base line. Accuracy was acceptable from all shot strings given the falling light and the fact I was shooting out of the bed of my truck. All shot from my Howa 223 heavy barrel 20", no suppressor, no brake.

AAC "SABRE BLADE BLACK TIP" 5.56 NATO 75 GRAIN AMMUNITION


AAC 5.56 NATO 77 GRAIN SIERRA TMK AMMUNITION


BLACK HILLS 5.56 77TMK


Nothing spectacular but nothing terrible either. Should work in many rifles and many situations for target, varmints, and hunting if your gun likes them. I bought 10 boxes of each and will see how they shoot in my other "trainer" and maybe in an AR or 2.

Jay

 

[Don Fischer]

They shoot most as head shots at close range.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Doesn't surprise my other than the Hornet bullet is pretty light weight. I think that's a place where it may well work but there are better choices.

Got a chance to go shoot the AAC ammo I ordered. Did not shoot for groups as it was pushing sunset and I was playing with my Xero Crono trying ti learn it as this was my first time using it. I shot a 5 shot string for speeds using the Black Hills 5.56 77tmk as a base line. Accuracy was acceptable from all shot strings given the falling light and the fact I was shooting out of the bed of my truck. All shot from my Howa 223 heavy barrel 20", no suppressor, no brake.

AAC "SABRE BLADE BLACK TIP" 5.56 NATO 75 GRAIN AMMUNITION
View attachment 742629

AAC 5.56 NATO 77 GRAIN SIERRA TMK AMMUNITION
View attachment 742633

BLACK HILLS 5.56 77TMK
View attachment 742637

Nothing spectacular but nothing terrible either. Should work in many rifles and many situations for target, varmints, and hunting if your gun likes them. I bought 10 boxes of each and will see how they shoot in my other "trainer" and maybe in an AR or 2.

Jay

What do you call exceptional accuracy? Shooting out of the bed of your truck might not be the best place to shoot from. And was this a standard twist barrel like what think they are 1-9". It is pretty much believed 1-9" is to slow for that heavy a 22 cal bullet. but then again could also depend on what you call expectable. My 6.5x06 has a 1-9" barrel and Hornady told me it would not stabilize the 140gr bullet, Sierra told me it would theirs. The Hornady bullet's run just over 1/2" at 100 yds from a bench. 140gr Sierra Match Kings blow that away, Sierra said that was the heaviest bullet it would stabilize. Strange things about rifles, some rifles shoot better than they are supposed to.

 

[The Guide]

What do you call exceptional accuracy?

Sub 2 MOA accuracy when shot in failing light (it was sunset and post sunset by the time I got to the 223) with a 3x9 scope at 100 yards earns the right to have additional testing. All ammo was sub 2 MOA on 5 shots and will go to the range to be tested more.

Shooting out of the bed of your truck might not be the best place to shoot from.

Why not? I was on BLM land a couple of miles from my house where I can go shoot after work or whenever I feel like it. I shoot prone from the bed of my truck at cardboard boxes I tape targets on.

And was this a standard twist barrel like what think they are 1-9". It is pretty much believed 1-9" is to slow for that heavy a 22 cal bullet.

Anyone can look up the Howa Mini Action in 223 and see that it has a 8 twist barrel. Plenty fast enough for the 77tmk. This rifle shoots the 77tmk very well.

The object of this post was to share the real world crono data with people who are interested in using the cheap AAC ammo as there isn't a bunch of real workd data on it published yet. This is my data and your data may vary just like your group sizes. I gave the BH 77tmk data for other to compare to a know ammunition that has shown to be consistent in quality.

Jay

 

[Bugger]

The Hornady bullet's run just over 1/2" at 100 yds from a bench. 140gr Sierra Match Kings blow that away

Pretty impressive to blow away .5” groups. What rifle/scope are you shooting, and what’s the average group size with the SMK’s?

 

[atmat]

The Hornady bullet's run just over 1/2" at 100 yds from a bench. 140gr Sierra Match Kings blow that away.

Care to post pics of groups that “blow away” half inches? Are you shooting 3 round groups, or a reasonable number of rounds for the group size?

 

[JLM]

In general, yes. Meat damage with 77gr TMK’s with pure rib/lung shots is minimal, however with scapula hits it can be pretty bad. The 62gr Fusion won’t kill quite as quickly when seen in large sample sizes, but is pretty solid and way better than monos.


A couple 62gr Fusion/Gold Dot deer-


300’ish yards if I recall correctly-
View attachment 742299




270’ish yards-
View attachment 742300




Since people like seeing bullets, both of these were sub 100y IIRC-

View attachment 742301


View attachment 742306

Since the gold dots seem to be unobtainium, what other bullet would you recommend for sub 100 yard shots especially if I wanted to bust shoulders?

 

[Formidilosus]

Since the gold dots seem to be unobtainium, what other bullet would you recommend for sub 100 yard shots especially if I wanted to bust shoulders?

Federal 62gr Fusion.

 

[JLM]

Federal 62gr Fusion.

Should have clarified I was looking for component bullets to reload

 

[Formidilosus]

Should have clarified I was looking for component bullets to reload

Ah. Nosler 64gr BSB would be my first choice for 100’ish yards and damage. But even the 75gr Hornady HPBT is good at higher impact velocities.