.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Shraggs]

Sorry about that.

From my reading, I'm seeing that most shots are relatively short (sub-200). For those that are stretching the .223 closer to that 1800fps range, what are you using for wind calls?

My assumption is a Kestrel and Applied Ballistics. From my observations of the .223 and a 75gr ELD-M or BTHP in non-hunting scenarios, I've noticed that from 300ish on, a really good wind call is critical. At 400, the difference between 5 and 10mph is 7ish". Start adding angles, and such and errors can compound quickly.

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Actually if you read this thing from the beginning, you’re going see many elk killed in the 350-450 range with the same wound profile. There is also one elk killed at 803 yards if memory is working…

 

[BLJ]

Yesterday. Rem Model 7 shooting 52 grn Berger jacketed projectile. mv 3250.

Red Stag 280 yards. Ran 20 yards max down hill.

Red hind neck shot at 150-ish yards.

Any info on that stock?

 

[Tahr]

Any info on that stock?

It's just a Boyd laminate that I took to with a jig-saw. and rasp. Plenty of strength in the laminate and makes a nice light stock.

 

[Anschutz]

Actually if you read this thing from the beginning, you’re going see many elk killed in the 350-450 range with the same wound profile. There is also one elk killed at 803 yards if memory is working…

Thank you for your answer to my question. It has definitely enhanced my knowledge.

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[HandgunHTR]

@Fartrell Cluggins that looks alot like the places I hunt in Sothwest Georgia. People that hunt out west will say "how can you not follow a blood trail?" I've tracked alot of deer and a good number of those I've been crawling through privet thickets and grown up clear cuts. Pretty places you have there!

I know I am a little late to this convo, but just wanted to add: It’s even more fun when you crawl over a yellow jacket nest. Although you do figure out how the animals travel through that stuff in a hurry. 25 minutes in, 30 seconds out.

 

[Luke S]

It's just a Boyd laminate that I took to with a jig-saw. and rasp. Plenty of strength in the laminate and makes a nice light stock.

Any idea how much weight was saved? Or just how heavy it is now? Looks like something I might try.
I found some TMKs and ordered 200. My family has some 223 rifles laying around. Hopefully try the TMKs this spring. I'm still a but hesitant though. Can anyone comment on whether a 6.5 Grendel or 300 Hamr might produce more reliable exits? I'm buying the argument that with a TMK the 223 will kill reliably Just like big blood trails.

 

[Drenalin]

73 ELD-M at 160 yards. Very impressive damage to the lungs, and the bullet exited this time.

 

[wilkup]

73 ELD-M at 160 yards. Very impressive damage to the lungs, and the bullet exited this time.

View attachment 643257

View attachment 643258

Just curious if it was a boltgun or AR?
What barrel length?
I’m assuming handloads… How fast you got them moving?

 

[SC HUNTER]

I know I am a little late to this convo, but just wanted to add: It’s even more fun when you crawl over a yellow jacket nest. Although you do figure out how the animals travel through that stuff in a hurry. 25 minutes in, 30 seconds out.

I've got a video saved that is definitely not appropriate for any forum of me finding a yellow jacket nest with a bush hog. My brother is an ass and laughed the whole time.

 

[wyosam]

Any idea how much weight was saved? Or just how heavy it is now? Looks like something I might try.
I found some TMKs and ordered 200. My family has some 223 rifles laying around. Hopefully try the TMKs this spring. I'm still a but hesitant though. Can anyone comment on whether a 6.5 Grendel or 300 Hamr might produce more reliable exits? I'm buying the argument that with a TMK the 223 will kill reliably Just like big blood trails.

Exits are more about bullet choice than head stamp. Monos, bonded bullets, partitions, etc that are built with weight retention as a goal will give exits with enough ooomph and a reasonable shot angle. As mentioned frequently in this thread, there is a tradeoff for the exit hole- you’re shooting a bullet that will do less damage than something like the TMK/ELDMs, unless of course you’re shooting a bigger bullet/pushing it faster etc at the expense of more recoil.


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[PNWGATOR]

Any idea how much weight was saved? Or just how heavy it is now? Looks like something I might try.
I found some TMKs and ordered 200. My family has some 223 rifles laying around. Hopefully try the TMKs this spring. I'm still a but hesitant though. Can anyone comment on whether a 6.5 Grendel or 300 Hamr might produce more reliable exits? I'm buying the argument that with a TMK the 223 will kill reliably Just like big blood trails.

Understand your concern if you like big blood trails.

That said, I assure you the 77TMK delivers an incredibly lethal wound channel with impact velocities above 1800 fps.

 

[Luke S]

Understand your concern if you like big blood trails.

That said, I assure you the 77TMK delivers an incredibly lethal wound channel with impact velocities above 1800 fps.

The big thing that might change my mind would be someone convincing me that a .223 will drop things FASTER to make that blood trail a moot point. But like I said earlier, I will probably try a .223 for spring bear. We don't need a .223 because the kids I take out do just fine with my 308. Between the suppressor and the weight it has extremely minimal recoil. The .223 would really be nice on our fall mountain hunts, which is where the brush is thicker and a good blood trail is nice. So we might try a .223 in the spring where it is a safer experiment. If it goes well I would love to carry an AR15 for our mountain hunts.

 

[Hunter609]

Anyone have a 16.5” barrel and wish they went longer?

 

[PNWGATOR]

The big thing that might change my mind would be someone convincing me that a .223 will drop things FASTER to make that blood trail a moot point. But like I said earlier, I will probably try a .223 for spring bear. We don't need a .223 because the kids I take out do just fine with my 308. Between the suppressor and the weight it has extremely minimal recoil. The .223 would really be nice on our fall mountain hunts, which is where the brush is thicker and a good blood trail is nice. So we might try a .223 in the spring where it is a safer experiment. If it goes well I would love to carry an AR15 for our mountain hunts.

Dropping things faster? Depends.

Delivering the desired wound channel on demand at the distance desired with the ability to spot my hit and make an immediate follow-up shot(s) from field positions from a robust and reliable delivery system is what I’m after. Also, the .233 give you an opportunity for purposeful practice with relatively low cost and low punishment.

The wound channel delivered by a 77 TMK may or may not deliver a more effective wound channel than the .308 projectile you’re killing things with.

That said, I’m 99.9% confident in the 77TMKs ability to deliver a lethal wound channel in ANYTHING inside of 450 yds. As an added bonus you can keep pressing the trigger and shoot them to the ground.

 

[Tahr]

Any idea how much weight was saved? Or just how heavy it is now? Looks like something I might try.
I found some TMKs and ordered 200. My family has some 223 rifles laying around. Hopefully try the TMKs this spring. I'm still a but hesitant though. Can anyone comment on whether a 6.5 Grendel or 300 Hamr might produce more reliable exits? I'm buying the argument that with a TMK the 223 will kill reliably Just like big blood trails.

Under 2lb now. The laminate is very strong so you can remove quite a bit of wood. I did it over completely using course sandpaper around the grip and forend as well as cutting the butt out.

This bottom pic 319 yd head shot with 69grn TMK. The laminate provides a very stable platform for the little model 7.

 

[Castle Rock]

I did something similar with this one
The butt is slimmed down and hollowed out, grip and forend greatly slimmed down, grit added to where it counts and it probably weighs half what it did
My favorite hunting stock for sure, good in hot or cold, much better than synthetics or chassis or living wood

 

[Drenalin]

Just curious if it was a boltgun or AR?
What barrel length?
I’m assuming handloads… How fast you got them moving?

Bolt action with a 17” barrel shooting factory Hornady ammo.

 

[Trapperkid]

Anyone have a 16.5” barrel and wish they went longer?

I have a ruger american ranch that’s 16 inches and I like it but I don’t at the same time. It’s super easy to move around in tight spaces like a deer stand but incredibly loud since I don’t have a suppressor. You could also get more velocity with a longer barrel. Just some things to think about.

 

[atmat]

Anyone have a 16.5” barrel and wish they went longer?

Mine is 16.5” and suppressed. It’s a joy.

 

[fwafwow]

Mine is 16.5” and suppressed. It’s a joy.

Ditto