.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[BLJ]

They are 1-9 and pleasantly accurate too. I have not tried the 77s, and I probably won't. I have tried 69 TMKs at the range they group great. As you can see from the pics, the distances at which we shoot don't demand much for accuracy or BC. I'll probably stick with 60 grain Partitions, 64 grain Nosler Bonded. I also load 62 grain Swift Scirocco and 70 grain Accubonds. I have had such great results with Partitions and Bondeds, that I don't see a need to change. My grandkids have land that abuts a wildlife management area in Mississippi. I load those two bullets for them and they have a high percentage of DRT. None have ever run more than 30-40 yards. These two bullets shrug off bone contact very well too.

What’s your experience with the Nosler bonded base in animals?
These have caught my eye before for slower twist rifles. Thanks.

 

[Smenning]

Black Hills 77gr TMK’s Tikka T3x 18” Suppressed @2734FPS Very pleased with this, same POI as 73gr ELD-M

 

[Fartrell Cluggins]

What’s your experience with the Nosler bonded base in animals?
These have caught my eye before for slower twist rifles. Thanks.

No problem in a 12 twist 223. From my experience and the experience of my grandkids, they are VERY destructive. Lungs and heart are soup when you hit them. Pass throughs on most broadside shots. They crush bone.

If you Google Nosler Bonded for Deer, you'll see a lot of experiences similar to mine.

They are not likely to be your accuracy load in any rifle, but they are accurate enough to get the job done.

 

[fwafwow]

For those who have have access to a chronograph; with Stand1 77tmk, I've been getting about 2900fps out of a factory length tikka 223, and 2750 from a 16 inch tikka. How does the Blackhills 5.56 tmk or 223 tmk factory loads compare?

If I wanted to handload the tmk, will I be able to match the stand1 velocity, or do they use a special unicorn powder to get that velocity?

What brass/powder/primer/seating depth combo works best in a 16 inch cut tikka barrel to get into that 2750fps range (or even more)?

What accuracy can be expected from the several factory 77tmk options out there? Any better than others? With the stand1 stuff, when I do a 10 round group, I usually get 8 inside an inch with 1 or 2 that bring the total group to 1.2-1.4moa. Is that a common theme for other brands, does the handloading tighten that up? Or is that just my shooting ability?

Today with Stand 1 I got 2830 out of my 16.5" Tikka and with Black Hills I got 2717. More info here - https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/223-barrel-length-speed.325173/post-3391495

 

[fwafwow]

Well damn, thats amazing. I tried multiple times and kept having error messages. Then I tried to call multiple times with no replies. Stuck buying Black hills. $

Edit: Just tried again to buy two more boxes . Same error issues at checkout. Not sure what it is, but im done trying with them. Glad you got it to work. I have my BH at least. Will take me a while to shoot thru all fiddy anyway. I wont be just random target shooting with 77 TMK.

I traded messages with Stand 1 the other day via IG and they explained that they had to put up a firewall due to some sort of (what sounds like a DNOS) attack. I just checked and it looks like the website is working again - although I didn't try to buy any ammo. The performance today (100 fps over BH) does, however, have me thinking about doing so - except I loaded up on BH!

 

[swavescatter]

I traded messages with Stand 1 the other day via IG and they explained that they had to put up a firewall due to some sort of (what sounds like a DNOS) attack. I just checked and it looks like the website is working again - although I didn't try to buy any ammo. The performance today (100 fps over BH) does, however, have me thinking about doing so - except I loaded up on BH!

What brass does Stand 1 use?

 

[fwafwow]

What brass does Stand 1 use?

 

[Moosehunter]

Technical question
It's probably been answered lots here...but I've never seen this scenario come up.
2600-2700 fps impact on an elk humerus. Quartered toward...I don't doubt the 77 tmk has what it takes to penetrate that, just wonder what kind of penetration beyond the humerus one could expect?
Like everyone else I claim to have special needs.lol.
However I do hunt North Idaho where I prefer timber hunting, and I'm used to shooting quartered toward or really whatever as long as I can see the vitals. I don't own a 223 but it's my next rifle.
I'm not doubting it's abilities...I've seen what those 77's do
Have killed bulls here with the bow. And packed out some monster bodied elk. The "shoulders" don't scare me in the slightest. Just a close range high impact velocity humerus hit.
@Formidilosis

 

[BjornF16]

Technical question
It's probably been answered lots here...but I've never seen this scenario come up.
2600-2700 fps impact on an elk humerus. Quartered toward...I don't doubt the 77 tmk has what it takes to penetrate that, just wonder what kind of penetration beyond the humerus one could expect?
Like everyone else I claim to have special needs.lol.
However I do hunt North Idaho where I prefer timber hunting, and I'm used to shooting quartered toward or really whatever as long as I can see the vitals. I don't own a 223 but it's my next rifle.
I'm not doubting it's abilities...I've seen what those 77's do
Have killed bulls here with the bow. And packed out some monster bodied elk. The "shoulders" don't scare me in the slightest. Just a close range high impact velocity humerus hit.
@Formidilosis

Moose humerus good enough evidence?

.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

Right side, humerus, ribs, heart, stopped on opposite side.

rokslide.com

 

[Moosehunter]

Moose humerus good enough evidence?

.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

Right side, humerus, ribs, heart, stopped on opposite side.

rokslide.com

Thanks! Forgot about that one....
Like I said...I'm not saying it can't be done. Just looking for evidence. As I didn't know if it existed
Happen to know impact velocity? As I'd love to see super high impact velocity data.
Amazing what those things can do.

 

[Formidilosus]

Thanks! Forgot about that one....
Like I said...I'm not saying it can't be done. Just looking for evidence. As I didn't know if it existed
Happen to know impact velocity? As I'd love to see super high impact velocity data.
Amazing what those things can do.

About 2,600fps impact or a bit more.

 

[ztc92]

Technical question
It's probably been answered lots here...but I've never seen this scenario come up.
2600-2700 fps impact on an elk humerus. Quartered toward...I don't doubt the 77 tmk has what it takes to penetrate that, just wonder what kind of penetration beyond the humerus one could expect?
Like everyone else I claim to have special needs.lol.
However I do hunt North Idaho where I prefer timber hunting, and I'm used to shooting quartered toward or really whatever as long as I can see the vitals. I don't own a 223 but it's my next rifle.
I'm not doubting it's abilities...I've seen what those 77's do
Have killed bulls here with the bow. And packed out some monster bodied elk. The "shoulders" don't scare me in the slightest. Just a close range high impact velocity humerus hit.
@Formidilosis

Not exactly what you asked but I shot my elk at 330 yards last year with an impact velocity of roughly 2200 FPS. Here was my description of the wound, second shot was at the joint of scapula and humerus.

Unfortunately I don’t have any wound photos as it was getting dark/cold and we wanted to get moving. We used the gutless method so didn’t really see the internal damage. I can tell you externally my first hit was high and behind the shoulder, seemed to go through 1-2 ribs, make a roughly 3” diameter hole and likely destroyed the lungs, though it did not exit. My second hit was where the front shoulder meets the leg, went through the closest “elbow” joint, just above the sternum, destroyed the heart and a portion of the bullet exited and lodged in the far “elbow”. Third hit was unfortunately a bad shot as I rushed it to put her down. Hit her in the rear quarter and that made a roughly golf-ball sized hole in the meat there.

I’ll try to get photos of the rear quarter when I process it if I remember later.

 

[Anschutz]

With hits vitals the animals seem just as dead as anything else I’ve used. Most have been “bang flops” on chest shots, which tells me it doesn’t take a grenade to achieve that result.

Always showed good expansion, and quickly. Always exits, including gigantic holes if bone was hit on the way out. But they aren’t sending lead fragments everywhere, which seems to be the cup of tea here and is effective.

Plenty of reading on Cast Boolits has told me you don't need explosive performance. There are thousands of examples on that site of hunks of lead at moderate (sub-1k to 2kish fps) velocities killing game animals from small game to African game.

Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk

 

[Hoopleheader]

Plenty of reading on Cast Boolits has told me you don't need explosive performance. There are thousands of examples on that site of hunks of lead at moderate (sub-1k to 2kish fps) velocities killing game animals from small game to African game.

Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk

Expansion, original diameter, meplat shape and weight retention doing the job vs fragments.

I of course wouldn’t want to pull a Quigly with a 45-70 hardcast at a half mile like some of the shots I’m seeing on the .223 thread, but at 600 yards a 430gr hardcast from Buffalo Bore is going about the MV of a 230 gr 45 ACP and will kill game.

Let’s see them tang sight kills!

 

[Tahr]

View attachment 641412

GFL are Fiocchi

 

[robtattoo]

Expansion, original diameter, meplat shape and weight retention doing the job vs fragments.

I of course wouldn’t want to pull a Quigly with a 45-70 hardcast at a half mile like some of the shots I’m seeing on the .223 thread, but at 600 yards a 430gr hardcast from Buffalo Bore is going about the MV of a 230 gr 45 ACP and will kill game.

Let’s see them tang sight kills!

But unfortunately, it'll have passed from supersonic, through trans & into subsonic. Chances are it's no longer traveling in the same direction!
Personally, I favor 510gn fairly soft cast bullets, started right at the limits of subsonic velocity. At 800yds, I've only lost 136fps I never have managed to hunt with it though!

 

[RockChukkar]

But unfortunately, it'll have passed from supersonic, through trans & into subsonic. Chances are it's no longer traveling in the same direction!
Personally, I favor 510gn fairly soft cast bullets, started right at the limits of subsonic velocity. At 800yds, I've only lost 136fps I never have managed to hunt with it though!
View attachment 642360View attachment 642361

How much drop are we talking at 800yds on that load?

 

[robtattoo]

How much drop are we talking at 800yds on that load?

49 feet, 7½ inches. Time of flight is 2.13 seconds.

 

[mt terry d]

I never have managed to hunt with it though!
View attachment 642360View attachment 642361

Well, get with it; it ain't going to shoot itself!

 

[Hoopleheader]

49 feet, 7½ inches. Time of flight is 2.13 seconds.

Plenty of time to reload, switch to your spotting scope and spot your impact.

put a can on that thing and they won’t here you a half mile away for follow up shots.

No lupold scope to break.

No bolt to bind (supposedly a big Rokslide concern favoring Tikkas).

I think we just found the new rokslide special.