.223, 6mm, and 6.5 failures on big game

[Rams horns]

shot placement , shot placement , shot placement
it he had been using a 308 he could have had 2 more pigs not waiting for the perfect shot on those trotters
make that a semi auto 308 and you could have had 3-4 more

at the end of the day is it about eradication & making meat or doing it with the limitations you put on yourself.

 

[Thegman]

I would call Harvey_NW buddies cow experience a failure, if the bullet did not actually open and fragment. If the wound channel looked narrow and not highly destructive like is common with the other eldm bullets, then it didn't do what WE expect it to. There's no manufacturer statement for big game performance for this bullet. Relative to what those expect that do or would use them on game (WE) I think it failed.

The 147 is what I see stated most often as an expansion or fragmentation failure (in match bullet realm).

WE who? You and the mouse in your pocket? Kidding aside, I don't know about WE, but I know I don't view match bullets as all behaving the same. Some may tend to hold together more (apparently the 6.5 147 e.g.) and some may come apart more.

 

[HighUintas]

WE who? You and the mouse in your pocket? Kidding aside, I don't know about WE, but I know I don't view match bullets as all behaving the same. Some may tend to hold together more (apparently the 6.5 147 e.g.) and some may come apart more.

Not a mouse, but the voices!

I think, or at least assume, most who use the EldM bullets for hunting have an expectation that they will produce highly devastating wounds and not just pass through with minor expansion. For myself, I do have some 147s but have not used them on game and at this point I've seen enough reports similar to this one that I won't use them for elk. I think I'll get some 140eldm or 143eldx to use instead.

That's just our opinion on it

 

[Thegman]

Well, me and my mouse are testing out 88 ELDM specifically because they apparently don't disrupt as much as some of the other ELDM and might balance performance more toward penetration. So there's at least two of us that don't consider the 147 performance a failure, just a different path to success!

 

[The Guide]

Well, me and my mouse are testing out 88 ELDM specifically because they apparently don't disrupt as much as some of the other ELDM and might balance performance more toward penetration. So there's at least two of us that don't consider the 147 performance a failure, just a different path to success!

Is that in the 223 that you're trying the 88?

Jay

 

[Thegman]

Is that in the 223 that you're trying the 88?

Jay

Yes, after following Khntr's success with them from his 223 AIs on moose, I wanted to try them as well. If they work well for me, they'd also be cheaper and a lot more available than the 77TMK. Taking the Little Big Gun to OK and hopefully line up some hogs with the 88s.

 

[FredH]

Well I used a few 75 grain Hornady BTHP's on a meat buck this year. Cannelured version. Not impressed. First shot entrance. Quartering away.


Exit. bullet traveled up and left.



slightly damaged shoulder blade.


Went down very satisfyingly but got right back up and was making good time running. Second shot hit just below the backstrap. hitting the spine and dropping the deer. Entrance.
[url=https://postimages.org/][/URL]

Bullet went downward into guts and did not exit. Didn't look for it. Tenderloins damaged.



Last shot through neck as deer tried to drag itself to cover.l Entrance.


Exit.



Very little meat damage even the neck where the bullet hit the spine. The first bullet hardly damaged the backstrap. A very little piece of tenderloin.

 

[HighUintas]

Well, me and my mouse are testing out 88 ELDM specifically because they apparently don't disrupt as much as some of the other ELDM and might balance performance more toward penetration. So there's at least two of us that don't consider the 147 performance a failure, just a different path to success!

After seeing a lot of the results in that 22 Creedmoor thread, it had me thinking maybe I don't want to ever hunt with one! A lot of those wounds are pretty nasty looking. Maybe the 88 would do a little better in that regard but still provide plenty of damage. I like to see and exit when I can get one

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I'm saying the argument people constantly make about "all the bullets people claim failed have come out of a dead animal" like it's some kind of "gotcha!" is poor. As if none of these bullets were failures because the animal in question was recovered.

That wasn’t my position on the topic or what I was trying to convey at all, sorry.

 

[The Guide]

Yes, after following Khntr's success with them from his 223 AIs on moose, I wanted to try them as well. If they work well for me, they'd also be cheaper and a lot more available than the 77TMK. Taking the Little Big Gun to OK and hopefully line up some hogs with the 88s.

If it can be loaded at lengths that will fit into magazines, give enough fragmentation, and still have enough left to exit you might have the perfect bullet for sub 200 yard 223 hunting.

Jay

 

[Thegman]

If it can be loaded at lengths that will fit into magazines, give enough fragmentation, and still have enough left to exit you might have the perfect bullet for sub 200 yard 223 hunting.

Jay

"If it can be loaded at lengths that will fit into magazines"
2.318 in my Duramags. Could go longer if I window them, but doing pretty well at 2.318 oal with a Factory Crimp Die.

"give enough fragmentation, and still have enough left to exit"
The 20k dollar question

"you might have the perfect bullet for sub 200 yard 223 hunting"

Muzzle velocity is 2,560, so should stay above 1,800 out to 500 yards or so, further than my 77TMK load does. Catches up velocity wise to my TMK load by 300- 350 yards. The only bullets for my rifle that stay above 1,800 further out are the 75ELDM, 80ELDM and 80ELDX. I'm hoping the 88ELDM might stay in the "goldilocks" velocity window longer than any of them (?). Not too fast, not too slow, but just right...

 

[treydfoster]

I neck shot a small buck Thursday afternoon with a 73gr Eldm out of a 20in 223. Never found him. He showed on on the game camera today. You can see where I hit him. I guess that will be my last neck shot.

I prefer my neckshot to be closer to the base of the skull

 

[LONE HUNTER]

Have you ever shot a deer, or know of someone else shooting a deer with a larger caliber that also didn’t leave blood?

I saw a bull hit with a 300 PRC ELD M..... actually saw 2 of them. One at 900 one at 200. Neither left a blood trail. Anecdotal but like you said. It happens for sure...... I also shot a buck at 711 yards with a 143 eldx and it left a huge blood trail....... Blood trails are so inconsistent. hard to really judge much off of them.

 

[doc holiday13]

I have never had a bullet failure, but how would somebody prove a bullet failure?

Yeah, thats a valid question to provide picture evidence because failure would imply the animal survived or got far enough away that it couldn't be found

 

[Bwalker]

IMO most bullet/cartridge failures are actually shooter failures.
If you told.me I had to finish out my hunting career with a 243,25-06,6.5 creed I wouldn't worry about it too much and I am primarily an elk hunter.

 

[deerhunter628]

Well Form jinxed me. I just shot a big whitetail doe with a 168 Speer Gold Dot out of my 308 at about 75 yards. We have snow so there was a blood trail, but it was not a very good one. She was dead within 30 yards, but the blood trail did suck.

 

[chambersandsteele]

It's crazy how much these threads blow up. This topic has a lot of opinions and a ton of pictures (which is great) but still I think most people are going to decide what is right for them based on their own experiences. I would hope no one is going to be swayed one way or the other based on someone else's experiences on the interwebs or podcasts or anything else, however, If you don't have experience in the field or are new to hunting with a rifle, I suppose that is exactly where a feller might get their information. Wrong or indifferent or otherwise, I have had my own experiences and have learned that bullet construction is definitely a thing to consider, as well as size of the projectile.

I shot a Barbary in NM that I never recovered. Shot felt great, distance was about 100 yards. I was shooting a 6.5 WSM with 140 gr accubonds. I have no idea what happened obviously and have no pictures to back it up but, that magnificent animal left my life forever and never gave me a follow-up opportunity.

I am not going to bash on 6.5 calibers or even accubonds. For me though, that was a bad enough experience that I now don't shoot accubonds and I hunt barbary sheep with a .338.

A .338 is not the right answer for everyone but I will say, I haven't had any animals walk away after a shot from that thing. Still haven't got another Barbary though, I hope its gunna happen this year to see how a 230 gr eldx performs on one. Happy Hunting!

 

[WTFJohn]

It's crazy how much these threads blow up. This topic has a lot of opinions and a ton of pictures (which is great) but still I think most people are going to decide what is right for them based on their own experiences. I would hope no one is going to be swayed one way or the other based on someone else's experiences on the interwebs or podcasts or anything else, however, If you don't have experience in the field or are new to hunting with a rifle, I suppose that is exactly where a feller might get their information. Wrong or indifferent or otherwise, I have had my own experiences and have learned that bullet construction is definitely a thing to consider, as well as size of the projectile.

I shot a Barbary in NM that I never recovered. Shot felt great, distance was about 100 yards. I was shooting a 6.5 WSM with 140 gr accubonds. I have no idea what happened obviously and have no pictures to back it up but, that magnificent animal left my life forever and never gave me a follow-up opportunity.

I am not going to bash on 6.5 calibers or even accubonds. For me though, that was a bad enough experience that I now don't shoot accubonds and I hunt barbary sheep with a .338.

A .338 is not the right answer for everyone but I will say, I haven't had any animals walk away after a shot from that thing. Still haven't got another Barbary though, I hope its gunna happen this year to see how a 230 gr eldx performs on one. Happy Hunting!

The threads/pictures/info about smaller calibers is out there for people to make their own decisions with, so they don't feel the need to shoot a .338 on sheep.

 

[MulemanMT]

Is a 22.250 too small for deer. My grandson is going to start hunting and I have one I've used for coyotes.

 

[TradLife406]

Is a 22.250 too small for deer. My grandson is going to start hunting and I have one I've used for coyotes.

Not at all. Use a copper bullet.


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