Zone 2 Training

[PanhandlePilgrim]

I listened to half the Exo Podcast and bought the Alpinism Book. It came in the mail 2 days ago and I'm already 90 pages in. This has been enlightening to say the least. I've always been a meat head and cardio has always been hard as I could go. Judging by the amount of sheep in everyone's profile photos I think I might be on the right track.

 

[schmalzy]

Has anyone ever gotten a custom plan from evoke or uphill? I like to run, ski and hunt and considering having someone smarter than I come up with a year round training plan. May be jumping the gun but seems like ROI could be pretty high.


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[mtwarden]

Has anyone ever gotten a custom plan from evoke or uphill? I like to run, ski and hunt and considering having someone smarter than I come up with a year round training plan. May be jumping the gun but seems like ROI could be pretty high.


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I've definitely considered it and probably should have jumped in when I first started running mountain ultras—not that I was super competitive, but guessing I would have been more competitive and not made so many mistakes.

Now that I'm not (and learned a few valuable lessons along the way), not sure how much individual coaching would be worth it?????

I have to admit I am curious on what exactly are my AeT, AnT, etc and what my training zones are. I think I have a pretty good idea, but definitely not 100% sure.

I do think that once you signed up for a plan and followed it through, you would never have to sign up again—a one time investment me thinks.

 

[schmalzy]

I've definitely considered it and probably should have jumped in when I first started running mountain ultras—not that I was super competitive, but guessing I would have been more competitive and not made so many mistakes.

Now that I'm not (and learned a few valuable lessons along the way), not sure how much individual coaching would be worth it?????

I have to admit I am curious on what exactly are my AeT, AnT, etc and what my training zones are. I think I have a pretty good idea, but definitely not 100% sure.

I do think that once you signed up for a plan and followed it through, you would never have to sign up again—a one time investment me thinks.

I’m with you; I think a one time plan could yield a ton of benefits. My biggest questions are how do I appropriately mix in strength training with zone 2 to build myself to be resilient and injury free but still capable of doing cool stuff and going on big adventures. I know I need to do both, but I’m a contractor, not a coach or trainer or fitness guru. I think the three pursuits go hand in hand and compliment each other well, but I know I can improve in each simultaneously.


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[mtwarden]

There's a good (recent) thread on muscular endurance floating around. I'm going to change my "just before season" rucking to doing a couple of their recommended very steep, with weight workouts per week. I'll still strength train twice a week at the gym, but I'll substitute a muscular endurance workout for one of my Zone 2 days.

I think their plans also include a lot of stuff on recovery, diet, balance/mobility etc. Someone said they have (or were going to have) a plan geared for mountain hunting, probably not too far off of their mountaineering plan.

 

[schmalzy]

There's a good (recent) thread on muscular endurance floating around. I'm going to change my "just before season" rucking to doing a couple of their recommended very steep, with weight workouts per week. I'll still strength train twice a week at the gym, but I'll substitute a muscular endurance workout for one of my Zone 2 days.

I think their plans also include a lot of stuff on recovery, diet, balance/mobility etc. Someone said they have (or were going to have) a plan geared for mountain hunting, probably not too far off of their mountaineering plan.

I think evokes tactical/selection prep plans probably have a lot of carry over to hunting.

I’m going to give them a call tomorrow and see what they have to say.


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[mtnbound]

There's a good (recent) thread on muscular endurance floating around. I'm going to change my "just before season" rucking to doing a couple of their recommended very steep, with weight workouts per week. I'll still strength train twice a week at the gym, but I'll substitute a muscular endurance workout for one of my Zone 2 days.

I think their plans also include a lot of stuff on recovery, diet, balance/mobility etc. Someone said they have (or were going to have) a plan geared for mountain hunting, probably not too far off of their mountaineering plan.

As we age we loose muscle mass and strength so proper food intake and strength training is essential. Zone 2 is also important along with the occasional Z3-Z5 high intensity session to develop a broad fitness base. HICT sessions can be very useful for hunters as it focuses on muscular endurance and you may find that you can substitute one of these sessions for a lower body strength day. Think of them being a sport specific sessions not just general physical preparation.


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[Truck24hr]

A question if you guys got a sec. I've heard the "conversational", or breathing only through your nose pace mentioned.

Just because that is a good limiter of pace, I've jogged my trail yesterday only breathing through my nose.

I know these Garmins are not precise, but mine has seemed to hold very close to actual HR unless it goes plum haywire.

I jogged the same trail today with normal "in through the nose, out through the mouth" breathing. Avg heart rate was the same, but it did speed up my pace a bit.

Is this just useless information? Am I above zone 2? My Garmin says i'm zone 5. My normal jogs are level ground in the 130-135 range.

Yesterday
Today

 

[Clarktar]

I’m with you; I think a one time plan could yield a ton of benefits. My biggest questions are how do I appropriately mix in strength training with zone 2 to build myself to be resilient and injury free but still capable of doing cool stuff and going on big adventures. I know I need to do both, but I’m a contractor, not a coach or trainer or fitness guru. I think the three pursuits go hand in hand and compliment each other well, but I know I can improve in each simultaneously.


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Give Todd Bumgardner and email over at HumanPredator Packmule. This is his wheelhouse and they keep elite armed forces groups trained and ready for deployment year round.

Can't recommend him enough (I think he has a podcast and probably some form of social media).

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

A question if you guys got a sec. I've heard the "conversational", or breathing only through your nose pace mentioned.

Just because that is a good limiter of pace, I've jogged my trail yesterday only breathing through my nose.

I know these Garmins are not precise, but mine has seemed to hold very close to actual HR unless it goes plum haywire.

I jogged the same trail today with normal "in through the nose, out through the mouth" breathing. Avg heart rate was the same, but it did speed up my pace a bit.

Is this just useless information? Am I above zone 2? My Garmin says i'm zone 5. My normal jogs are level ground in the 130-135 range.

Yesterday
View attachment 755659View attachment 755660Today

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My guess would be that you are certainly above your aerobic threshold at 141+ BPM, though your zones may be off as calculated in the app. Try the heart rate drift test to more accurately calculate it. My results are a page back. Below my zone 2 threshold, nose breathing doesn't require exhaling with my mouth.

Zone 2 Training

How many hours are you getting on on your aerobic conditioning days? My target is going to be 6-8 hours per week, so I need more sessions to achieve that which leaves less time for strength. I get 2 hours of planned AC every 7-day cycle, and that doesn't include any time in the field. Why do...

rokslide.com

Updated Thinking on Aerobic Assessment for Mountain Athletes

Until recently, there were limited options for an endurance athlete to get a handle on his or her metabolic response to exercise at varying intensities. There are several good options, but we’ll start with the one we usually default to. Be aware that it requires serious technology, such as an...

evokeendurance.com

 

[mtnbound]

A question if you guys got a sec. I've heard the "conversational", or breathing only through your nose pace mentioned.

Just because that is a good limiter of pace, I've jogged my trail yesterday only breathing through my nose.

I know these Garmins are not precise, but mine has seemed to hold very close to actual HR unless it goes plum haywire.

I jogged the same trail today with normal "in through the nose, out through the mouth" breathing. Avg heart rate was the same, but it did speed up my pace a bit.

Is this just useless information? Am I above zone 2? My Garmin says i'm zone 5. My normal jogs are level ground in the 130-135 range.

Yesterday
View attachment 755659View attachment 755660Today

View attachment 755661View attachment 755662

Are you using a watch or a chest strap for HR. Do you know your max heart rate? You might look in the Garmin app under your device and look in user settings to see what it has for your HR zones.


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[BBob]

Is this just useless information? Am I above zone 2? My Garmin says i'm zone 5. My normal jogs are level ground in the 130-135 range.

Have you found and entered a true max heart rate? If not your zones won't mean much all. Max heart rates can be hard to produce.

I know these Garmins are not precise

If worn properly they are more than accurate enough for what you are trying to do.

 

[snowynock]

"A question if you guys got a sec. I've heard the "conversational", or breathing only through your nose pace mentioned.

Just because that is a good limiter of pace, I've jogged my trail yesterday only breathing through my nose.

I know these Garmins are not precise, but mine has seemed to hold very close to actual HR unless it goes plum haywire.

I jogged the same trail today with normal "in through the nose, out through the mouth" breathing. Avg heart rate was the same, but it did speed up my pace a bit.

Is this just useless information? Am I above zone 2? My Garmin says i'm zone 5. My normal jogs are level ground in the 130-135 range."

I recently listened to a podcast done by Peter Attila and the guy behind the Morpheus Heart Rate Monitor and they were talking about stats as it pertains to smart watches(I personally own a Garmin Fenix 6s). I know a garmin isn't that accurate but I didn't realize(I'm quoting this podcast) that smartwatches with a HR have a 30% accurate readout. I knew it was low but I figured higher than 30%. The podcast in question is Peter Attila Drive #305.

I've come to only use my garmin to tell me my pace - the rule of thumb is "if you can hold a conversation, that's zone 2". I've done mountain endurance hiking events(29029 Everesting), I've done an Ironman 70.3(I'm actually part of a tri club in NYC) and I've run the NYC Marathon - every coach says the same thing in regards to zone 2. My head coach for the 29029 event actually went farther to say "zone 2 should be boring. It should be difficult to stay in because you feel like you can absolutely push more. Don't!" After training for that event, I keep 85% of my runnnig in zone 2 and it's so frickin hard because there's not much effort.

Call someone during your run and if they can tell you are running - you're not in Zone 2.

 

[snowynock]

Give Todd Bumgardner and email over at HumanPredator Packmule. This is his wheelhouse and they keep elite armed forces groups trained and ready for deployment year round.

Can't recommend him enough (I think he has a podcast and probably some form of social media).

I currently do MTNTough and I've recently heard of Todd and HumanPredator from this forum. Have you done MTNTough at all? I'd love to hear a comparison of the two.

 

[Truck24hr]

Are you using a watch or a chest strap for HR. Do you know your max heart rate? You might look in the Garmin app under your device and look in user settings to see what it has for your HR zones.


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Using just the watch. I do not know my max HR, so I guess without that it's just a guess.

Have you found and entered a true max heart rate? If not your zones won't mean much all. Max heart rates can be hard to produce.

If worn properly they are more than accurate enough for what you are trying to do.

I have not, at least not something that's not figured by some calculator. I guess that should've been my first step.

Yeah, my Garmin has been really close when I've checked the accuracy. Sometimes with lots of sweat it is way off, but never really on a run.

@snowynock, that's a great analogy. Thanks

@SteveAndTheCrigBoys Thanks, I'll do that when I get back in town.

 

[Jason Snyder]

My max HR when I was 40 was still 192. It’s worth getting a true measure.

 

[mtnbound]

Using just the watch. I do not know my max HR, so I guess without that it's just a guess.


I have not, at least not something that's figured by some calculator. I guess that should've been my first step.

Yeah, my Garmin has been really close when I've checked the accuracy. Sometimes with lots of sweat it is way off, but never really on a run.

@snowynock, that's a great analogy. Thanks

The watches are not as accurate as a chest strap. Do yourself a favor and get a chest strap for your aerobic workouts.


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[BBob]

I have not, at least not something that's figured by some calculator.

Calculator's or estimator's are very often wrong so you cannot rely on them for what you are doing. To get a MaxHR you need to do a really good warm up and then give your max effort everything you've got for as long and as hard as you can possible go. It should feel really really hard and very uncomfortable. You also might want to test again on different days to pin it down.

 

[BBob]

The watches are not as accurate as a chest strap.

I'd somewhat disagree. The modern opticals have come a long way. Here's a tri athelete tech nut (DCRainmaker) test of the Garmin Venu with various other optical watches, optical sensors and chest strap. He wears them all at the same time during testing and compares how they track. I believe the one that doesn't do so well is the Whoop. I have a Polar Verity Sense optical armband and it absolutely tracks with my Garmin chest straps.

Garmin Venu 3 In-Depth Review: More Sleep Analytics, Power Meters, and More!

Garmin has just launched the new Venu 3 series, which goes back to having two separate sizes, while adding in a slate of features – some of which are the first time we’ve seen them on a Garmin wearable.

www.dcrainmaker.com

This chart is from his Garmin Venu test:

 

[mtnbound]

I'd somewhat disagree. The modern opticals have come a long way. Here's a tri athelete tech nut (DCRainmaker) test of the Garmin Venu with various other optical watches, optical sensors and chest strap. He wears them all at the same time during testing and compares how they track. I believe the one that doesn't do so well is the Whoop.

Garmin Venu 3 In-Depth Review: More Sleep Analytics, Power Meters, and More!

Garmin has just launched the new Venu 3 series, which goes back to having two separate sizes, while adding in a slate of features – some of which are the first time we’ve seen them on a Garmin wearable.

www.dcrainmaker.com

This chart is from his Garmin Venu test:
View attachment 755803

I am on my third Garmin watch and all of them have showed HR spikes just using the optical sensor of the watch. When I pair it with a chest strap I do not get those spikes.


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