Zone 2 Training

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

Glad to see folks getting "turned on" to this information.

Aerobic capacity training will seldom be found in 8-10-12 week "training programs" that seem to be so popular; BUT if you're a backpack hunter you will want to train for aerobic capacity (with most of this training at or near Zone 2).

Aerobic conditioning is the "long game", measured in years not weeks.

How do you balance Zone 2 training with strength training?

I’ve been going down the rabbit hole on podcasts but the hunting focused ones didn’t really detail a training plan (probably because they want you to pay for that) and the other general fitness ones detail plans that are more focused for marathons, iron man’s, etc. (little to no strength training).

My understanding is you can strength train after zone 2. So something like 60 minutes of Zone 2, four to five days a week with a 30 minute strength training session after, then a day of higher intensity zone 4/5 cardio once a week.

What I’m unclear on is…if part of the benefit of zone 2 is faster recovery and you go do a leg strength workout after, does that negate any benefits of the zone 2 work? Maybe that leg strength day needs to be aligned with a day that you’ll have a full rest day after?

 

[P Carter]

How do you balance Zone 2 training with strength training?

I’ve been going down the rabbit hole on podcasts but the hunting focused ones didn’t really detail a training plan (probably because they want you to pay for that) and the other general fitness ones detail plans that are more focused for marathons, iron man’s, etc. (little to no strength training).

My understanding is you can strength train after zone 2. So something like 60 minutes of Zone 2, four to five days a week with a 30 minute strength training session after, then a day of higher intensity zone 4/5 cardio once a week.

What I’m unclear on is…if part of the benefit of zone 2 is faster recovery and you go do a leg strength workout after, does that negate any benefits of the zone 2 work? Maybe that leg strength day needs to be aligned with a day that you’ll have a full rest day after?

Mt warden can reply, but there should be no issue with zone 2 and lifting in the same day. Strength work and zone 2 work rests different adaptations, so they’re generally not going to interfere with one another. If there is interference, you’re typically lifting too heavy (progressing too fast) or doing zone 2 at too high intensity. For me, if I add a bit too much weight too quickly, I might be a bit sore the next morning, but not enough to preclude zone 2 work. I might (say) do a flat run instead of hills.

In other words, lifting after aerobic work (with period of hours of rest between) isn’t going to negate the aerobic work. It’s only detrimental if your lifting is so intense that it creates so much soreness to interfere with the *next* zone 2 session.

 

[WDO]

How do you balance Zone 2 training with strength training?

I’ve been going down the rabbit hole on podcasts but the hunting focused ones didn’t really detail a training plan (probably because they want you to pay for that) and the other general fitness ones detail plans that are more focused for marathons, iron man’s, etc. (little to no strength training).

My understanding is you can strength train after zone 2. So something like 60 minutes of Zone 2, four to five days a week with a 30 minute strength training session after, then a day of higher intensity zone 4/5 cardio once a week.

What I’m unclear on is…if part of the benefit of zone 2 is faster recovery and you go do a leg strength workout after, does that negate any benefits of the zone 2 work? Maybe that leg strength day needs to be aligned with a day that you’ll have a full rest day after?

Mt warden can reply, but there should be no issue with zone 2 and lifting in the same day. Strength work and zone 2 work rests different adaptations, so they’re generally not going to interfere with one another. If there is interference, you’re typically lifting too heavy (progressing too fast) or doing zone 2 at too high intensity. For me, if I add a bit too much weight too quickly, I might be a bit sore the next morning, but not enough to preclude zone 2 work. I might (say) do a flat run instead of hills.

In other words, lifting after aerobic work (with period of hours of rest between) isn’t going to negate the aerobic work. It’s only detrimental if your lifting is so intense that it creates so much soreness to interfere with the *next* zone 2 session.

No issues with the same day, but same session can be tricky IMO.
From personal experience, and I assume it is also an energy balance/fitness level issue, when you get into 45 min plus sessions, lifting(for strength) after zone 2 leaves something to be desired.

And doing zone 2 after intense lifting is also suboptimal (atleast for how I workout and eat). I think like P Carter stated, a several hour gap seems better. I prefer zone 2 in the morning, and lifting in the afternoon or atleast mid day.

 

[mtwarden]

Yup- no problem with Zone 2 followed by a strength training session. My preference is also Zone 2 in the morning and strength train in the afternoon/early evening.

I’m only lifting twice a week. A bastardized Wendler (don’t tell him!!! ) where I combine squats & bench one day and deadlifts & overhead press the other. I do some accessory stuff in between sets- pull/chinups, dips, lunges and core.

I’ve been doing this for almost 10 years (I’ll change up some things now and again) and so far it’s worked pretty well.

 

[Muddler]

I'm far from an expert, but I believe the main issue with lifting before zone 2 would be if your heart exceeds zone 2 and the likely build up of lactate. Pretty sure the true definition of zone 2 is keeping lactate under 2 mM. There really isn't a good way to monitor lactate real time; you can get a meter and spot check lactate afterwards or maybe part way through I suppose, but those test strips are pretty expensive. If you lift and raise lactate, you'd probably need some sort of rest period for lactate to drop before doing zone 2.

 

[BBob]

Age based HR zones are crap. If I tried to use an age based method I’d be off by 20-30 bpm which would put me out of the correct zones. You need to test to do it properly. Different activities can result in different max heart rates affecting your zones. Your max heart rate running will be different enough from cycling that it’ll be unlikely for you to be able to use the same zones for both. Zone 2 should be used along with some training in your anaerobic zones (avoiding Zone 3) for best results. Some training now advocates for “sweet spot” training that includes a portion of Zone 3 so opinions and coaching can vary.

Mark Allen and Dr Phil Maffetone popularized this way back in the 80’s-90’s with Allen ultimately winning 6 consecutive Ironman worlds. It can be boring as hell (and ego busting when others blow by you while out training) and certainly not as fun as training at tempo pace but results are results.

Here’s a cycling article that discusses how, when, pros, cons when incorporating lifting with your training:

Combining Cycling & Weight Training: How to Time Your Workouts - TrainerRoad Blog

If you want to become a faster cyclist, it's time to start strength training. In this guide, we'll cover how and when to combine strength and cycl ...

www.trainerroad.com

 

[DakotaBPNW]

I do must of my running in what would be “zone 2”. Long and easy miles, average around 50 miles per week. I lift 3x a week push/pull/legs hitting the main lifts. On top of this I do some mountain biking and a decent amount of hiking with a kid in a child carrier.

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

Tried to do a light jog today after fishing all morning. Went as slow as possible, downhill to start. Immediately in zone 3. Guess I have a long ways to go.

 

[Poser]

Tried to do a light jog today after fishing all morning. Went as slow as possible, downhill to start. Immediately in zone 3. Guess I have a long ways to go.

It’s difficult to temper your pace when you’re accustomed to zone 3.

 

[justinspicher]

I never knew zone training was a thing, I have always used rucking as a form of my cardio. My metric was being able to talk, if I couldn’t talk coherently, I needed to slow down. Its worked for me for the past couple of decades.

 

[WDO]

You have to play around with it if you’re not used to running. As some also mentioned, you can’t blindly trust the zone your HR monitor says. I had better luck with MAF and honing in from there. For several months during the winter I would do 30-90 minutes on the stairmaster, wasting a lot of time just following a HR monitor. And on that note, a chest trap is typically more accurate than a wrist strap.
Also, warm up. Typically your first 10 minutes or so is just a warm up, I don’t track until after that

 

[TaperPin]

I used to poo poo anything that wasn’t fast and as hard as a guy could go for an hour or so per day, as many times per week as a schedule allowed.

Then one year we hiked 14ers every weekend and it really changed my perspective. 6 to 8 hours with a lot of elevation gain, hiked at a slow pace where we could still talk easily wiped us out - we felt hung over half the week. Then every Wednesday we’d take a fast 2 hour hike with a lot of elevation a little faster than you’d be able to chit chat. Not doing any other cardio the rest of the week I was in much better mountain shape than any time before or since, even after a very strenuous fire season spent in steep terrain with a lot of muscle gain. Really weird and changed my conditioning ever since.

 

[BBob]

chest trap is typically more accurate than a wrist strap.

Yes typically but I’ll just say that the Polar OH-1 and Verity Sense (worn on the forearm or upper arm not the wrist) in testing will track right with Garmin and Polar chest straps but might have a slight delay in reporting. Something like 2-3 seconds max. I have a Verity and have as others compared it and worn it at the same time as a Garmin Dual. I wear the Verity near 100% of the time since it’s so easy to slide up on my arm and I don’t even notice the slight delay. If you don’t like a chest strap you might consider one of the optical Polar’s and wear it on your arm.

 

[mtwarden]

I never knew zone training was a thing, I have always used rucking as a form of my cardio. My metric was being able to talk, if I couldn’t talk coherently, I needed to slow down. Its worked for me for the past couple of decades.

I’ve known about it for some time, but never took the time to fully dial in with a chest monitor.

Like you, I’ve instead used the “can I carry on a normal conversation” as a rough guideline.

6-7 years in - so far, so good

I’m pretty sure on my “typical” (daily) hikes I'm occasionally bumping into some Zone 3 stuff with the steeper climbs. Still the vast majority of the hikes are in what I’m calling Zone 2.

I’ve thought about going to Bozeman and paying for a lab test and investing in a chest or arm monitor, but the fact is what I’m currently doing works.

 

[Marbles]

Age based formulas are hit or miss. My lactate threshold has been 3 bpm below the formula max HR for me in the past, and my max HR is 20 bpm above what the formula says. I have a friend with a max HR about 16 bpm below the formula. Without running an actual test, the formula can either leave you well below what you need, or put you over training. If you have a HR monitor, do some simple tests (Up Hill Athlete has articles on how) and find your true anaerobic threshold aerobic threshold, and possibly max HR as well.

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

What’s a good way to determine your zone 2 heart rate threshold excluding the formula or heart rate monitor’s determination?

I’m not sure I completely understand the heart rate drift test. The actual workout yes, but analyzing the data not so much.

 

[Team4LongGun]

Dr Peter Attia has great insight on zone 2 training. His book is excellent as well.

 

[Fever Buck]

Been attempting zone 2 runs for the last 5 weeks. Was using the Apple Watch which I know isn’t that accurate. Went ahead and picked up Training for the Uphill Athlete and a Polar H10. Thanks for all the info y’all. Will probably hop on Scott’s workout plan at some point once I’m in better shape.

 

[mtnbound]

I prefer to keep my workouts separated. Rough layout. Day 1 ME lower, day 2 aerobic conditioning, day 3 ME upper, day 4 aerobic conditioning, day 5 DE lower, day 6 DE upper( sometimes I combine DE days into one full body workout).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

I prefer to keep my workouts separated. Rough layout. Day 1 ME lower, day 2 aerobic conditioning, day 3 ME upper, day 4 aerobic conditioning, day 5 DE lower, day 6 DE upper( sometimes I combine DE days into one full body workout).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How many hours are you getting on on your aerobic conditioning days?

My target is going to be 6-8 hours per week, so I need more sessions to achieve that which leaves less time for strength.