Zone 2 Training

[mtnbound]

How many hours are you getting on on your aerobic conditioning days?

My target is going to be 6-8 hours per week, so I need more sessions to achieve that which leaves less time for strength.

I get 2 hours of planned AC every 7-day cycle, and that doesn't include any time in the field. Why do you feel you need 6-8 hours of AC work?

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

I get 2 hours of planned AC every 7-day cycle, and that doesn't include any time in the field. Why do you feel you need 6-8 hours of AC work?

In short: Scott Johnston on the Exo podcast, ongoing research on zone 2 training, realization of how little aerobic training I’ve ever done in my life and my experiences in the mountains.

95% of my training in life has likely been anaerobic in nature. Which might explain why I’ve seen limited progress on my abilities in the mountains over the last 6 years.

 

[JohnB]

Just a heads up for everyone Scott Johnson and something like 17/18 coaches at Uphill Athlete chose to leave the business last year due to issues with the other cofounder. The new business that those folks made is called Evoke Endurance and is worth a look rather than continuing to drive business to Uphill Athlete.

 

[mtnbound]

In short: Scott Johnston on the Exo podcast, ongoing research on zone 2 training, realization of how little aerobic training I’ve ever done in my life and my experiences in the mountains.

95% of my training in life has likely been anaerobic in nature. Which might explain why I’ve seen limited progress on my abilities in the mountains over the last 6 years.

I am a firm believer in AC training, but I also believe there must be a balance to one's workout regime. 6-8 hours a week of Z2 seems excessive, but I hope it works for you. One thing I would recommend is tracking some metrics, so you have actual numbers to compare your progress to or, if needed, to readjust things if you stop seeing improvement.

 

[Poser]

Just a heads up for everyone Scott Johnson and something like 17/18 coaches at Uphill Athlete chose to leave the business last year due to issues with the other cofounder. The new business that those folks made is called Evoke Endurance and is worth a look rather than continuing to drive business to Uphill Athlete.

From what I've heard, Steve House definitely has a reputation for being.... 'testy"

 

[mtwarden]

How many hours are you getting on on your aerobic conditioning days?

My target is going to be 6-8 hours per week, so I need more sessions to achieve that which leaves less time for strength.

If you’re goal is to build an aerobic base, you’re on the right track

 

[Poser]

I think it was mentioned in another discussion, but this episode of Nonprophet takes a fairly deep drive into zone 2 training.

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

So trying to analyze a couple attempts at a heart rate drive test to confirm my zone 2 threshold.

First Attempt: Stair climber at speed 6. After 5 minute "warm up", average HR was 127 for the first 20 minutes then 135 for the second 20 minutes. About a 6.3% drift.



Second Attempt: Stair climber at speed 5. After 10 minute warmup, average HR was 130 for the first 25 minutes and 133 for the second 25 minutes. About a 2.3% drift.



Using this info from uphill athlete for analyzing:

3.5–5 percent difference in two halves
You have determined your AeT heart rate, which was your starting heart rate for the test. Set that as the top of Zone 2 in your TrainingPeaks zones. Subtract 10 percent from this and set that as the top of your Zone 1.

0–3.5 percent
The workout was within your aerobic intensity zones, but you should do the test again at a starting heart rate that is 5 beats per minute (bpm) higher.

>5 percent
Your initial heart rate/pace was above AeT. Redo the test using a lower starting heart rate. It may take several attempts to nail a decoupling that is slightly less than or equal to 5 percent.

So given that the average heart rates for the first halves were 127 and 130 respectively, I'd guess my AeT heart rate is closer to 128 or 129? I'll try the test on the treadmill next, might be easier to dial the pace in compared to the stair climber. That number would probably align with how I felt in terms of "conversational pace" during each workout.

 

[mtnbound]

Keep it simple, for Z2 just find a pace that allows you to talk in full sentences and breathe through your nose. I know this sounds too easy but it works.


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[schmalzy]

Just a heads up for everyone Scott Johnson and something like 17/18 coaches at Uphill Athlete chose to leave the business last year due to issues with the other cofounder. The new business that those folks made is called Evoke Endurance and is worth a look rather than continuing to drive business to Uphill Athlete.

Has anyone signed up for an Evoke plan?


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[thinhorn_AK]

I’ve known about it for some time, but never took the time to fully dial in with a chest monitor.

Like you, I’ve instead used the “can I carry on a normal conversation” as a rough guideline.

6-7 years in - so far, so good

I’m pretty sure on my “typical” (daily) hikes I'm occasionally bumping into some Zone 3 stuff with the steeper climbs. Still the vast majority of the hikes are in what I’m calling Zone 2.

I’ve thought about going to Bozeman and paying for a lab test and investing in a chest or arm monitor, but the fact is what I’m currently doing works.

I messed around with heart rate monitors for a decade when I was bicycle racing and doing long distance triathlons. I got burned out by always filling out logbooks and downloading HRM files.

Now I do 30-60 minutes each morning (m-f) on my rowing machine and I make sure to keep the pace to around 20 strokes per minute max. That ends up getting me a 5k in just over 20mins. After that I do some pull ups then go to work.

In the evenings I’ll either do an interval workout on my rower or do some kettlebell, sandbag or other strength work for a total of 9-10 workouts per though the work week.

On the weekends I’ll take one complete day off then usually do a tougher kettlebell session the other day. As it turns out, I don’t really do much if any true “backpack” hunting so doing long weighted hikes while fun just aren’t needed for moose, caribou and bear hunting.

 

[WDO]

Has anyone signed up for an Evoke plan?


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I personally haven't.
That said, after another member reference the book "Training for the Uphill Athlete" in this thread I picked up a copy. I'm about halfway through it and recommend it. It does a good job of breaking down the various aspects of endurance work.

 

[mtwarden]

You could easily do a very deep dive into heart rate zonal training. If I was still running mountain ultras, I’d probably take a dive. But I’m not and over the course of the last 15 years have built a pretty solid aerobic base.

I’m pretty certain that most of my hiking is in Zone 2 (+/- a little depending on terrain), so I’ll probably just stick with it w/o the deep dive.

 

[schmalzy]

I personally haven't.
That said, after another member reference the book "Training for the Uphill Athlete" in this thread I picked up a copy. I'm about halfway through it and recommend it. It does a good job of breaking down the various aspects of endurance work.

I did the same thing and enjoying so far as well.


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[mtwarden]

I read the book several years ago. I didn’t fully understand all of the formulas and scientific research behind them, but did glean the basic premises- majority of aerobic training should be in Zone 2, with a little Zone 3/4 sprinkled in. Rest/recovery is important. Strength training (muscular endurance) is important, as is nutrition.

The Zone 2 stuff was the biggest aha moment for me.

 

[ItemB]

Has anyone signed up for an Evoke plan?


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I haven't yet, but was emailing with them after the hunt Backcountry podcast to see what plan would be the best route to take/start. And he mentioned they were working on a hunting specific training plan, so decided to wait on that

 

[mtnbound]

I have found that’s it’s much easier to do Z2 stuff in the gym. If I do a trail ruck I often find that I am above my Z2 HR range unless I’m going really slow or the trail is basically flat. I would recommend wearing a chest HR monitor on your trail rucks to see what zone you are actually in.


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[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

Walking a relatively flat golf course turned out to be great Zone 2 training. Maybe my aerobic base is better than I thought, I do a lot of this

 

[OregonSteeler]

I read the book several years ago. I didn’t fully understand all of the formulas and scientific research behind them, but did glean the basic premises- majority of aerobic training should be in Zone 2, with a little Zone 3/4 sprinkled in. Rest/recovery is important. Strength training (muscular endurance) is important, as is nutrition.

The Zone 2 stuff was the biggest aha moment for me.

Love the short synopsis. Spot on.! You should put out a summary book and sell that! LOL.

 

[schmalzy]

I read the book several years ago. I didn’t fully understand all of the formulas and scientific research behind them, but did glean the basic premises- majority of aerobic training should be in Zone 2, with a little Zone 3/4 sprinkled in. Rest/recovery is important. Strength training (muscular endurance) is important, as is nutrition.

The Zone 2 stuff was the biggest aha moment for me.

For me the biggest take away is just that the more work I put in with zone 1/2 at slows speeds is going to increase my performance gains. Seems so counterproductive but in looking at what my running tempo/training load was in past it was spot on.


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