XR 650L vs DRZ 400

a suzuki dr650 would be a far better apples to apples comparison with an xr650.

The drz 400s are bullet proof because they're overbuilt and not high strung/high powered like a "proper" dirt bike.
They'll always feel overweight and slow in comparison.

If you can get one plated id look at a yamaha wr450f. 2012+ are fuel injected, E start, they're reliable as hell, fairly light, plenty of power and great handling with decent road manners. You will need a bigger fuel tank, IIRC I got <150kms to a tank on my supermoto.

**just saw post #22 about wheelies and hoodrat sh!t, get a WR, wheelies for days 😉
 
In no way do I want to popularize Idaho more than it is...but Idaho small-town DMV I literally told the lady " I want to rip Wheelies down mainstream and do HoodRat Schittt, but also ride single track and shuttle myself back to my truck to get my raft"

Here....you want this plate. $18 for one year, or $22 for two.......Don't drive over 45mph on the highway
 
RE: Yama WR450F......Never even looked or read. I will. Don't seem to "flow" in the circles of the same Honda/DRZ reliability tho. But I am late to the dirt bike game in life.
Theyre definitely a tiny bit more high strung than an xr/drz- the price you pay for lighter weight and more power/handling, but nowhere even close to as bad as say a ktm or husky.
 
but nowhere even close to as bad as say a ktm or husky.
My 2017 KTM 300XC has been the most reliable bike I've ever owned, and I've ridden it harder than any other bike I've owned. My friend has the same bike and it now has 500hrs on the original bottom end, with 0 major issues in it's life, as in never failed during a ride. All the KTM/Husky/GasGas that people I ride with own have been issue free. The idea that KTM is unreliable is about 10 years out of date.

Sherco and Beta have had some issues, but gotten much much better in the last 4-5 years.

Honda are reliable when ridden within their limits. If you take an air cooled trail bike with crappy suspension and brakes on a hard enduro ride or a fast desert ride, you would start breaking things because they are not designed to be ridden that hard. Honda does make racier models, but in my opinion nothing that is legitimately a good enduro bike. They are only interested in motocross when it comes to racing. The CRF300F would be an excellent choice for what OP described. And yes, faster than a DRZ or XR, not that anyone is trying to ride these bikes "fast".

Yamaha make an excellent bike, the best Japanese brand in my opinion. Extremely reliable, very high performance, and more focus on the off-road/enduro market. The two I've owned were excellent, some of the best factory suspension out there (aside from KTM). A friend has a TTR 230 that has been put through hell 5 times. We call it Timmy because it's so handicapped now. We have absolutely abused that bike, and it runs and runs. Also have done some very hard trails with it, and it has made it through. Extremely comparable to the CRF300F, except not EFI, less displacement, and 5 speeds.

Personally, I'm done buying used bikes unless it's from someone I know and trust their maintenance and use patterns. I've spent too many hours fixing weird problems and undoing "custom" tuning done by previous, misinformed owners. And, bikes bought new and maintained well resell very well. Ends up the same cost or cheaper over time, and you ride a better bike.

So, when people are comparing a brand new CRF300F (5k) to a 10-15 year old 450-650 for the same price, you are comparing apples to rotten oranges in terms of reliability/useful lifespan. And people think just because a bike is clean and shiny that it's been well maintained. Wait until you replace the fork oil on a 10 year old bike that's never had it done... Or take out tubes that are so old and dry they just come apart in your hands. Or discover that every wheel bearing and suspension bearing is rusted out because somebody rode the bike through saltwater or caustic mud 10 years ago and didn't clean it properly. Or the kickstart teeth shear off on your second ride. I could go on, and on, and on....

And now let's get to riding technique and how much bike you need to "go fast". The parallels to shooting are many. Suffice it to say, if you aren't standing up when you ride, if you don't know how to lift the front wheel using your legs and the suspension, if you can't balance on the bike at low speed or stopped, if you can't do a basic double blip over a log, then you should not be worried about the difference in performance of a 300cc bike vs a 400cc or 650cc. And these big displacement bikes will actually hinder your learning and cause you to develop bad habits. Sound familiar?
 
'13 300xcw awesome bombproof bike. Yet, even when it had round rims, it weren't bad but it weren't great on the roads.

'23 sherco 250. Motor is way smoother, but that damn seat isnt made for that sorta thing.

'23 150xcw. Weird lil gearbox in the thing. Swapped the 50t for a 52t. 6th gear would come on the pipe at about 36mph :ROFLMAO: 50t actually cruised pretty well, but it felt like a toy and I made a lot of poor choices while riding it. Thing was almost as dangerous as a 50!

We always tried to stay on the single track so it was never really an issue. Kinda shocking how bad your bike is, when you do have to run the road for 5-10 miles though :ROFLMAO:

Been kinda getting out of the single track. Starting to look into an all around bike that can do a bit of everything. The 500's and tenere's seem to be what everybody has that does that sorta stuff. Kinda like how everybody has a 300...

I dunno. I'm just window shopping right now.

Pol Tarres can do this with a Tenere. Pol Tarres can probably do that with a Goldwing.

Here's Toni Bou doing trials with an Africa Twin (1000cc dual sport):

Unfortunately, none of us are Pol Tarres or Toni Bou. Guys, it's not the bike...
 
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@Jesse Jaymes,
The DRZ is a sweet machine. It’s powerful enough, but does lack a high gear if you want to cruise a little. 55 mph is about the max comfortable range for it, before you get too much vibration. I had mine up to 94.

The DR650 isn’t a whole lot heavier, and will cruise at 70 mph no problem.

I don’t have any experience with a XR650.

However, if you’re needing to commute consistently at or above 55 mph, I would not consider the DRZ. Get a DR or XR
 
The idea that KTM is unreliable is about 10 years out of date.
I havent had one of the new ones, so youre right, I should add a caveat that my experience was with bikes in the 2005-2012 range.
I had a lot of issues with my 530 in particular. The maintenance intervals in terms of oil and filter swaps was about double my wr450.
I blew 2nd gear, had lots of niggly little issues.
Wasn't a fun ownership experience compared to the wr450 I owned.
Having said that, you gotta pay to play when youre hammering your toys haha.
 
I had a wr450. I really liked the bike but it wasn't the right tool for my task (low speed sketchy trails with lots of challenge for advanced riders).... but I beat the stuffing out of it and it was long legged enough to ride on the road. I couldn't pull the ktms in the open stuff....but they had zero chance once it got tight. I liked that bike a lot, but I found myself wondering how much it could take living it's life spinning so hard.

When I moved to the 250 2T my times in the tight stuff got faster and I was far less fatigued....and my anxiety of lunching valves went away.
 
KTM has a lot of issues, definitely reliability is still one of them.

I sold a 2013 KTM 500xcw a few years ago that had 560 hours on it and the valves never even needed adjusted.

After that I bought a 350xc and ran it to 300 hours without a single mechanical issue.

Currently on a 2025 250xc with 107 hours on it and not a single issue.

Lots of time "reliability" issues are actually "owner" issues, shitty oil, shitty air filter maintenance or just shitty maintenance in general leads to failures that folks blame on reliability because they can't take any accountability.

I'm an A level off road racer and ride a fair bit of motocross as well as tons of hours of trail riding every year, I'm DEEP into the dirt bike scene. I do not agree that KTMs have reliability issues, hell in this day and age ALL bikes are pretty damn reliable if you take care of them. However, I only spend about 30 weekends a year at races or trail riding so you may have more experience than me. ;)

Edit to add: OP, I think the DRZ would be a better bike than the XR for you.
 
Lots of time "reliability" issues are actually "owner" issues, shitty oil, shitty air filter maintenance or just shitty maintenance in general leads to failures that folks blame on reliability because they can't take any accountability.

100%

I've seen a handful of fuel pumps shut the party down. Oddly enough, all on 350's... I'm not up to date on how many hours a guy should get outta one, but I'd have that be on the maintenance list.

Couple spare fuel filters need to be stashed on the bike as well. We were really happy when we figured out that thats where our problem was :ROFLMAO:
 
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It's off topic, but I am the OP.....oil and oil changes. Is this a Cult thing in the dirt bike community?

I changed the oil in my KTM 450 yesterday. I don't recall if I changed it last year, or year before. I didn't keep track of the hours or the miles.

Oil that came out looked "brand new". All the sale ads say "oil changed every other ride".

Really? Why? Why is a dirt bike "so demanding" on oil or oil quality? Is this marketing? The Swiss KTM oil was $24 a liter. I went with BelRay. It was still $13 a liter. It's 10-50. Really that much difference in oils to not throw Rotella diesel oil in it? I don't race. I hardly every see 5th gear let alone 6th.

I'd love about 5 bikes! I would love to try a Beta Xtrainer. The 300 XC-W is my Grail Bike, though I haven't ridden once since I was just 1 month into riding a dirt bike and couldn't handle it. No clue what power valve spring was in it. Would love to try again.

A Husky 350 FE would be on a list too. That Honda snoozer CRF 300F would be nice too.

Simply can't afford them all.

A "mentor" of mine who is over 60 and a bike guy his whole life said he would have ZERO issues running an XC-W 300 2T over the countless miles of central Idaho USFS roads. Would be a one bike killer.

But for overall miles year after year.....that's not really an XC-W "sweet spot" is it? Not how I see those bikes. To me that's 4T all day long and year over year.

The 400 Zed is getting more and more appealing by the hour. Which is almost embarrassing. I have to stay focused on the original goal and need. Push Button and Reliability with lots of AfterMarket.
 
2 strokes...I go longer than most on the oil, mainly because I'm lazy. Though if Ive been mean to the clutch I'll change it pretty quick

$20 gallon of rotella works for me

I'd change oil a bit more often in a 4 stroke
 
It's off topic, but I am the OP.....oil and oil changes. Is this a Cult thing in the dirt bike community?

I changed the oil in my KTM 450 yesterday. I don't recall if I changed it last year, or year before. I didn't keep track of the hours or the miles.

Oil that came out looked "brand new". All the sale ads say "oil changed every other ride".

Really? Why? Why is a dirt bike "so demanding" on oil or oil quality? Is this marketing? The Swiss KTM oil was $24 a liter. I went with BelRay. It was still $13 a liter. It's 10-50. Really that much difference in oils to not throw Rotella diesel oil in it? I don't race. I hardly every see 5th gear let alone 6th.

Most of those ads are either lying or probably racing quite a bit. Once oil gets old your bike doesn't shift as good is when I notice it the most. It's also "cheap prevention" of other problems. Dirt bikes are more demanding on oil due to the higher RPMs and slipping of the clutch to modulate the power which creates debris in the oil. If you are just cruising roads and not riding trails or tracks where you need to slip the clutch your oil will last longer for sure.

We go about 10 hours between oil changes on my son and I's bikes.

Rotella white jug 15w-40 is all you need.
 
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